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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My post on the person suing NHS was taken down

113 replies

Tesla73 · 11/10/2021 15:38

So I am posting it again with no comment

www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/transgender-woman-rowley-regis-sue-21817673

OP posts:
midgedude · 11/10/2021 18:24

mental health issues are detectable in the brain

We may use self reported evidence but we also know there are detectable brain changes , chemical imbalances etc

Bonsaibreaker · 11/10/2021 18:07

My father passed away this January due to treatment waiting times.

Fact is most people have a story to tell regarding treatment waiting times and the consequences of that no matter what the treatment is for.

It just feels like those awaiting cancer treatment or MH treatment or treatment for gynecological issues do not get the option to sue. We just accept long wait times. However this particular group and in my opinion a group that displays entitled behaviour in most aspects of life are somehow more worthy or deserving so have the support, platform and social media backing in order to portray them as "special or more deserving".

Not sure I have worded this correctly I hope I have sorry if I offend anyone.

KittenKong · 11/10/2021 17:54

My aunt had a brain tumour. Surgery was postponed and postponed - until it was inoperable.

Some people should just shut up.

KevinTheKoala · 11/10/2021 17:53

A 6 year old family member of mine has just been diagnosed with cancer after their GP refused to see them for 4 weeks, not phoning back after the parent filling in the Web forms etc. That is the state the NHS is in right now. There are many things they are doing wrong - this is not one of them.

Bosky · 11/10/2021 17:52

@poshme

I liked the comment underneath the article:

'My self harming, suicidal, Autistic, ADHD daughter is on a two year waiting list to see CAMHS. We have spent thousand on private treatment. If being trans is no longer considered a medical condition then why are services being provided on the NHS? Unless there is trauma or something surely most of it is cosmetic?'

I saw that and too and wondered, as others have, whether the Good Law Project has taken on any other cases based on excessive NHS waiting times or flat-out denial of treatment due to lack of resources. If this is a “test case” then they could hardly have chosen one less likely to garner public sympathy when people have actually died due to lack of medical care.

This seems wildly misjudged and is likely to reduce support for both trans people and the NHS. Every time this sort of story comes up in the Press the comments are full of people asking criticising the NHS for even providing these sorts of services in the first place.

Unsure33 · 11/10/2021 17:40

I know two people with very bad painful hernias which affect their everyday life . They have been waiting for years . Same for hip replacements also very painful.

So to say this area is “special” is rubbish .

mumwon · 11/10/2021 17:25

My dh annual (ha) cardiac review is pending according to the hospital (translation "well we don't have the foggiest notion of when we will be able to book an appointment - but we will let you know")

Gingerkittykat · 11/10/2021 17:18

@midgedude

Brest size is treated when it's causing problems

Usually reduction not complete removal

Problems that can be detected and measured such as pain , posture problems

Being trans is a self reported something that isn't an illness or disorder that has nothing measurable about it

It's not about what bit of you the surgery affects , it's the why that matters

You could say the same about many mental disorders.

Depression is based on self reporting symptoms.

Just because healthcare is shit in a lot of specialities doesn't mean folk shouldn't be trying to improve it.

I'm currently saving up to go abroad for surgery I will probably need to wait 4 years for on the NHS so not a stranger to waiting lists.

Lovelyricepudding · 11/10/2021 17:16

I joined a waiting list for an op a month ago and was told they have no idea when I will be seen but likely to be at least two years.

Maerchentante · 11/10/2021 17:13

Entitled much?

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 11/10/2021 17:09

@WhoNeedsaLammyInTheWorld

We need proper research. Why should the NHS fund treatment that is not proven and/or potentially harmful
Exactly, isn't treatment supposed to be evidence based?
sunshinesupermum · 11/10/2021 17:05

Speechless and furious.

midgedude · 11/10/2021 17:03

Brest size is treated when it's causing problems

Usually reduction not complete removal

Problems that can be detected and measured such as pain , posture problems

Being trans is a self reported something that isn't an illness or disorder that has nothing measurable about it

It's not about what bit of you the surgery affects , it's the why that matters

Mummyoflittledragon · 11/10/2021 17:03

@Tesla73

wonder if the posters here who are on waiting lists or had cancellations could contact GLP to ask for help and see what their response is
I am disabled and was told kicked off the waiting list due to the start of the pandemic. I couldn’t cope waiting as my issues were causing a lot of distressing physical pain. I paid for major surgery myself.
SuperSange · 11/10/2021 16:56

Welcome to being a woman! Waiting ages for surgery on your reproductive organs.

poshme · 11/10/2021 16:52

I liked the comment underneath the article:

'My self harming, suicidal, Autistic, ADHD daughter is on a two year waiting list to see CAMHS. We have spent thousand on private treatment. If being trans is no longer considered a medical condition then why are services being provided on the NHS? Unless there is trauma or something surely most of it is cosmetic?'

Datun · 11/10/2021 16:51

@CharlieParley

That article is confused and confusing. Unfortunately by lumping together adults and children, their argument got a little wonky. Also, I think this is where we might start seeing the problem that the doctrine of gender identity is going to cause those who suffer gender dysphoria.

The doctrine is at the root of concerted efforts to demedicalise/depathologise being trans. If being trans is not a medical condition, an underfunded and understaffed healthcare system cannot justify putting extra funding into "trans healthcare".

In the US, they were very careful to ensure gender dysphoria was reclassified from a mental health issue to a sexual health issue in order to ensure that insurance companies would still cover it.

But that mechanism doesn't work here, because we have a different system.

Our system categorises accutely life-threatening, longer term life-saving and life-improving (I'm sure there's proper names for that). And treats almost all free at the point of care (with some exceptions for immigrants and tourists/business travellers).

So what are these patients asking for? Hormones, various cosmetic surgeries, but these are all about appearance. Life-improving. So why would the NHS put extra funding in? Distress? I know patients who had mental health issues because certain parts of their body were not as they felt they should be. Causing anxieties, depression and distress, often debilitating and affecting their day-to-day life. They still don't get a right to have cosmetic surgery on the NHS.

And it's wrong to say that they're just asking for the same treatment as everyone else and asking for what everyone else is entitled to. They're not. The NHS must prioritise by design. We don't all have the exact same right to treatment. Life threatening conditions and injuries take precedence. Then life-saving and then we get to life-improving.

And in the latter category are a whole range of elective surgeries and treatments (elective here just means it's not an emergency but scheduled in advance). And the NHS gets to these procedures as they are able, but life-saving ones are prioritised. Yes, we have waiting list targets, but those are frequently missed. That's true across all fields. Especially because funds are an issue.

Hence the comments perceiving this lawsuit in less than favourable terms.

What would be really useful, in that case, is if it all went to court, and the NHS were backed up by the law.

It would stop anyone else moaning that they can't get life improving surgery ahead of people's cancer treatment.

GrandmaMazur · 11/10/2021 16:51

My son has had some struggles with his mental health and when he was at his worst our very sympathetic GP referred him to our local CAMHS but told me they would only see him if he had actually attempted suicide. Funnily enough my reaction wasn’t to sue the NHS which desperately needs more funding in this area.

santabetterwashhishands · 11/10/2021 16:51

😶

CompleteGinasaur · 11/10/2021 16:50

About 20 years ago, aged 39, I was provisionally diagnosed with Cancer - either Myeloma or Lymphoma, diagnosis to be confirmed by biopsy. Unfortunately it took an unacceptably long time - 5 months - for the biopsy to happen. I know that the biopsy waiting time was unacceptably long because my GP told me so in no uncertain terms, angry herself at the fact that my case had fallen between two clinics, (apparently a bureaucratic cock-up that could have killed me; Myeloma, particularly, being both a virulent form of cancer and having, at the time, quite terrifying survival rates), apologising profusely and telling me not only that I could, but that I probably should, sue the NHS. Luckily the biopsy came back to tell me that what was attacking me was not Cancer at all, but a pretty rare though still rather vicious autoimmune disease called Sarcoidosis. Did I sue the NHS? No, dear reader, did I buggery.

IT'S THE NHS.

It saves mores lives on less money with the most underappreciated staff than any other healthcare system, and I might have had 9 or 10 months of terror and existential crisis, but thanks to that much maligned (by entitled morons, anyway) organisation I'm still here to be rendered apoplectically speechless with rage at the narcissistic fools who think their essentially cosmetic procedures are more urgent than clearing those same cancer waiting lists.

I'm slowly growing - temporarily - blind at the moment, actually; waiting nearly 2 years for a simple procedure to clear up minor complications after cataract surgery. I'm not, however, enlisting the fragrant Jolyon Maugham to barrack Nottingham Queens Medical Centre on my behalf. I'm patiently waiting (whilst admittedly squinting quite a lot) whilst one of the finest achievements of any socialist government on the planet struggles back up onto its knees after a bloody global pandemic. The narcissistic rage that impels these idiots into women's safe spaces is exactly the same toddler "Me Me Me" that thinks their boob jobs are somehow more urgent than someone else's triple bypass surgery.

Sorry about the rant, but... No, I take that back, I'm not sorry at all. Dangerous bloody morons, the lot of them.

Potteringshed · 11/10/2021 16:48

"It's sometimes possible to reduce problems caused by having large breasts without the need for surgery... Breast reduction surgery will usually only be available on the NHS if you have first tried alternative measures."

They mean "have you tried dieting or a better bra". That's all anyone I know who had the surgery was asked. We all had breasts which were a G cup and above and had to get to a healthy BMI minimum.

If breast reduction surgery is being cut back in some areas that's utterly shitty and I would utterly support someone suing for that.

Potteringshed · 11/10/2021 16:45

Who else would be entitled to get their breasts removed or enlarged, or cosmetic facial surgery free on the NHS ''just 'cause''?

Breast reduction surgery is available on the NHS. I had breast reduction surgery in my early twenties (before the magic age of 25 when lots of people on here say any kind of surgery like that should be allowed because apparently that's too young to know your own mind) because I had balance problems, back pain and was generally massively unhappy with my shape. Surgery was utterly life changing. The loss of my much vaunted 'perfectly healthy breasts' let me wear normal sized clothes, do exercise, dance without falling over, sleep on my back, and massively positively impacted my confidence. I just checked and waiting lists for breast reduction surgery for the same kind of reasons as mine is still available on the NHS with a slightly shorter waiting time than trans top surgery (as they need to get through the additional hurdle of the gender clinic referral first).

Cosmetic facial surgery is also available on the NHS for things like disfiguring injuries, or tattoos such as swastikas from former bad life choices etc. Actually also really important life affirming stuff.

Trans people are not unique at all in this respect. The NHS has long acknowledged that some surgeries might not be technically life saving but are hugely important and shouldn't be the preserve of the wealthy who can afford private medicine.

anon12345678901 · 11/10/2021 16:42

Free to pay for it themselves if they're that unhappy with the wait. It's not a necessary or life saving procedure, they can wait like others.

MassiveHoard · 11/10/2021 16:40

Am I allowed an eye roll ?

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 11/10/2021 16:39

But, I thought being trans wasn't a mental illness/medical condition?

I thought it was exactly the same as being gay?

In which case why would the NHS need to get involved at all...?