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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex/Gender Wars - What would be a win?

185 replies

joolzfromyork · 08/10/2021 18:50

As the Title ...

What's a win? for you individually?

I read here .. on Twatter and one or two other places and it is clear that for some GC Women (and Men) a win would be the banning of Puberty blockers being given to those you see as being children...

At the other extreme ... the banning completely of Transition and any medical interventions to help Transsexual people...

It's reasonable to believe that the majority view falls somewhere between these two points ... but where?

There is no real consensus that has emerged which all GC people subscribe to ...

So, I wonder ... what's a win? what would make you believe that this issue had been solved/dealt with to your satisfaction ?

Anyone like to have a stab at this one?

The question involves no trickery, Honest opinions - however blunt - are sought (Hopefully the mods will adopt a light touch ...) but I am interested because I remain convinced that a path to compromise exists ... and whilst we won't find it here on MN, I would like to understand better what people 'really' want, as distinct from what the loudest voices claim they want ... what do you want to happen?

Of course, since I am asking the question, it goes without saying that extra credit can be gained through the use of 'Flippancy' and 'Sarcasm' ... so, by all means, Have at it.

But if anyone could/would have a go at answering the question, I'd be grateful

OP posts:
MultiStorey · 08/10/2021 19:04

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Babdoc · 08/10/2021 19:02

I’m not sure how it could be a draw, nauticant. You either allow male genitals in women’s single sex spaces or you don’t!

BelleOfTheProvince · 08/10/2021 19:00

blockers being given to those you see as being children

As an educator, I feel uncomfortable with this phrasing.
Children are people under 18.
Children shouldn't make life altering decisions until their brains have matured (around age 25)
Particularly when we know so little about the long-term effects.

I don't think many people want to 'ban' adults transitioning. As long as they understand sex doesn't change and sex based rights are not negotiable.

picklemewalnuts · 08/10/2021 19:00

I want to be able to speak freely.
I don't want people to have unnecessary surgery because they don't like their healthy body.
I want to be free to wear what I like without people making assumptions about my sex life, hobbies etc.
I want to know that there are places I can get away from male bodies. If make bodies should enter those places, I want to feel free to scream and call for help.

I am not a lesbian because I have short hair and wear dungarees. My son is not gay because he wears eyeliner. My grandson is neither gay nor a girl, because he likes copying his mummy.

nauticant · 08/10/2021 18:59

I think it will be a draw. Women will put in years of effort in a bitter fight against the gender identity ideology to end up in a stalemate. Some ground will end up being lost but many of the real excesses will ultimately be rejected.

At that point the refrain will be "we've been telling you women for years it was all going to be all fine but you have been banging on, and look, your hysteria was totally uncalled for". Then the complacency will set in again.

Babdoc · 08/10/2021 18:59

Goady, much? You are looking at the question the wrong way round, OP.
GC feminists are fully supportive of transgender people’s human rights.
We simply wish to deny them the “extra” right of entering opposite sex spaces on the basis of self ID. Our remit is the safeguarding of women’s and children’s rights.

LobsterNapkin · 08/10/2021 18:59

I think we'd be much better off to be in a place where the idea of "gender identity" as some kind of separate capacity inside every person's brain that corresponds to the real them went the way of the dodo.

And we mainly used a simple definition of sex which, while it would likely be associated with certain cultural expressions, wasn't limiting people to them. Pronouns would be sex based.

As far as medical approaches for people with serious sex dysphoria, I am happy to accept certain accommodations but I would love to see real evidence based approaches pursued more seriously. The medical option aren't what I'd call overwhelmingly great, presenting as the sex you're not is never going to be a seamless outcome.

As far as kids the #1 thing would be to stop people telling them if they feel wrong about their bodies they can change sex, so they can get on with the difficult work of becoming reconciled to their adult bodies.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2021 18:59

At the other extreme ... the banning completely of Transition and any medical interventions to help Transsexual people...

I've never seen that, certainly not here.

Apart from that...
Let kids be kids, let women be women, and let trans people have all the rights they want that dont impinge on women's and children's.

titchy · 08/10/2021 18:58

For single sex (not gender) spaces to be freely available and their need accepted and understood.

For healthcare for children and teens that identify as a different gender to be properly evidenced.

That ok for a start?

UnfinishedBunting · 08/10/2021 18:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.