How to deal with writing group's lack of support for my GC feminism.

I'm surprised you're even welcome in the group anymore. The people may have been your friends, but for understandable reasons, I highly doubt they wish to continue your relationship.

I consider someone telling me they're nonbinary (or a male woman, or a female man) the same way I consider someone telling me they're a Sagittarius or a Muslim or a medium. Bit weird, not something I believe in, but as long as they're not harming anyone they can fill their boots.

There are plenty of people out there who have faith in gender ideology but don't think it should give men the right to be in women's spaces, etc. and who are perfectly lovely people just doing their thing.

I understand that this can be an emotive issue, and that if your main experience of dealing with trans people is interaction with very online TRAs it might be natural to get on the defensive immediately since they are generally truly awful. But in this situation, I think you went a bit too far.

If it were me, I would probably have explained that I don't believe in gender ideology and would not use "preferred pronouns", but would be fine with anyone being in the group as long as they were able to respect my belief. The same way I would welcome a Muslim member but would not start wearing a hijab in accordance with their beliefs.

I'm GC, but if I had to pick a gender (not sex), I'd probably pick non-binary, because I certainly don't like binary gender. Of course, my sex is still female.

So fussing about whether a person describes themselves as non-binary seems to me like a non-issue. It is entirely irrelevant to their biological sex. Your writing group is not segregated by sex, and there doesn't seem to be any reason why gender should matter. The group should be welcoming people from all different belief systems, whether religious beliefs or gender belief or belief that we are ruled by the lizard people (maybe not that one).

I think you've been making a silly fuss about nothing and you should apologize.

I’m as GC as the next adult human female but your response was rude and aggressive. You need to leave really and reflect on your approach. I know this is an emotive area but we need to control our arguments and be reasoned and kind.

I think you do need to apologise, but that it would be reasonable to suggest something positive rather than just negatively comment on their idea. People probably weren't falling over themselves to support her idea, but you blowing it up is pushing people's hands.

I would say that you we're sorry you reacted that way, but that you really prize the 50:50 male to female ratio and you thought that could be threatened by focusing on people with gender identities. You could also say you would like to see disabled voices, carers, working class... as a priority - so a constructive rather than an aggressive response.

Given that sex is binary - we are all either female or male - it is absurd to suggest we should invite writers who are neither male nor female to join us.

I agree that it's absurd to think that anyone can actually be neither male nor female. But does your fellow member really think nb people are literally, physically neither one sex or the other?

Also, however daft and attention-seeking you might think a person would have to be to label themselves non-binary, how they categorise themselves surely doesn't necessarily have to have any impact on you? I mean...any prospective new members could potentially have all kinds of views, allegiances or attitudes you disagree with.

I'd like to think that if I had been in your writing group, I'd have stuck up for you. You're entitled to your views and it's bloody offensive to suggest that your views are ridiculous.

I'll stop thinking non-binary is ridiculous when I hear one convincing explanation of what it actually means that doesn't rely on stereotypes (e.g. clothes, hair, hobbies and so on).

In your reply you basically said I don’t believe in gender so we shouldn’t invite this person/these people.

But what merit does your belief have over the legitimacy of the suggestion of the other member?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m gender critical. But in this specific context I’m not sure you expressed what you should have effectively for the matter at hand.

I think what you said was a little out of line, although I'd have rolled my eyes at the suggestion of looking for NB people to broaden the group.

But whatever issues there are with that approach, and I can think of a few, it isn't that they are all self-obsessed, nor is that proven by one example of someone that you know.

That pretty much comes off as "don't invite Asian women, they are all snobs, just like this person I work with who is an Asian woman and always obsessing about shoes."

People can't always read between the lines on these things.

I actually think CharlieParley wrote you a brilliant reply - it’s interesting that what you took from it was a bristling at the idea of an apology. They did not say “apologise for your beliefs” but apologise for the aggressive tone of your response and putting the group leaders in a difficult situation by asking for their support that your response was appropriate.

Your response to a fellow writer's well-intentioned suggestion for the benefit of the group was hurtful. Needlessly so. And now you're asking the group leaders to support your hurtfulness.

Maybe you should point whoever accused you of being 'anti-gay' at the recent Gawker piece calling 'cis gay men' who aren't sexually attracted to transmen and want to maintain single-sex spaces 'the most obnoxious demographic on the planet'.

Sounds as if you went in with both feet flying and without an awful lot of awareness of what you were getting into. But what's done is done. Best thing is to leave now and start up a GC writers group. You may be surprised by how many people leave the old group to join you.

I've had to leave a book group where it became clear that several of the members had gone woke and were policing what could be expressed. My partner has left a women-in-tech group where transwomen were admitted. We have also eased our way out of a lesbian group that used to meet up at weekends for events, walks and weekends away. We posted a couple of mild, reasonable GC articles in the FB group and were met with a wall of silence and disapproving looks.

We've now formed a feminist book group only open to genuine feminists and that's thriving. My partner's started a new women-in-tech network with strict adult human female policy and in which GC feminist values are paramount, and we'll be getting a GC lesbian group together. This is the way you fight back.

I understand why you felt you could write such a frank response to the suggestion to purposefully seek out non-binary writers. Writing groups work best when you trust each other and honestly give your feedback. I was in a writing group with other writers, both published and unpublished for years in the past, and yes, these people did come to feel like friends. It can be quite raw to ask others for feedback for your work and there's not much point in wasting your time with niceties I always felt, because that's just not productive or helpful. And allowing yourself to be that vulnerable, and being invited to critique by others making themselves vulnerable, it creates a bond, especially after years of doing it.

I may have reacted in a similar way to others in your group to your reply though, if I hadn't known about the issue, because it sounds harsh to call others self-obsessed and in the grip of a reactionary ideology and mean to then be scathing about a young woman you know.

You're in a writing group and you've produced a piece of writing that your fellow writers don't get. They've reacted to what they see in your writing and the feedback is not good. The language you chose to express yourself was harsh, so is the response. It's as simple as that. Appealing to the group's leaders for support would be as pointless in case of actual work-in-progress feedback as it is now.

Because as much as you are entitled to your opinion, so are they.

Remember, you need to take your audience with you. And you didn't do that. You assumed both knowledge and beliefs in your readers that they don't have.

So that I think is where you're at. Is it fixable? Not without an apology from you. Your response to a fellow writer's well-intentioned suggestion for the benefit of the group was hurtful. Needlessly so. And now you're asking the group leaders to support your hurtfulness. But that's where writing groups stand or fall. Robust critique, yes. Being mean and hurtful, no. The latter drives people away in the long-term, and it isn't productive or constructive either. I think right now you're benefiting from being a longstanding member of the group, otherwise you may well have been asked to leave by now.

So, you need to decide, how important is this group to you? How was previous conflict handled? No writers group exists for a decade without a few, rather robust disagreements occurring along the way. Can you swallow your pride and indignation and put yourself in the shoes of your fellow writer, the lesbian woman who made the suggestion? Put yourself in the shoes of the group leaders and reassess the situation?

If you decide to leave, I would recommend doing so only after apologising to your fellow writer and to the group leaders. Don't burn your bridges and try to leave on good terms.

I would have been more measured in my response I’m afraid. It’s not a win friends type approach. You can leave, you can apologise or you can just keep your head down for a while. Whatever you think of non binary it would be quite sensible to look for a diversity of views so I would write a nice short apology that says you do agree with the sentiment that adding diversity of input is a good thing and suggest a couple of people? It sounds very token but can you come up with any gay or lesbian suggestions?

Wrtiting groups should have no truck with censorship.

I think you should realise that probably most of the people who read your email were in total agreement, but, are terrified of speaking out on this subject.
If it was me I would do one of two things depending on how much I wanted to be part of the group. Either resign, who needs that stress or just carry on as if nothing has happened (its this guy decision not to join and nothing to do with you, if he is passive-aggressive trying to victimise you by suggesting your views on 'genders' are affecting him, a straight man, then thats for him to explain) and if anyone has an issue with you then its up to them to explain why.

Agree, maybe it’s time to find a new writing group, I think a group of GC writers would be great, you could really focus on female perspectives and experiences or exploring the impact of gender identity etc in your own ‘safe’ space!

I know you’ve known these people for ten years and it probably feels like a loss but do you really want to be in a group where you don’t feel comfortable to share your views going forward, which is the situation you’re in now realistically? Okay, you were pretty blunt and I do think it can be good to ‘caw canny’ with GC stuff, but open debate doesn’t seem to be on the agenda.

Have you actually resigned already or are you just thinking about it?

This could be a catalyst for a new focus/voice in your writing, so I would frame it as that and see it as a positive.

I’m openly GC and think your response was too far tbh, there are ways to express your views in a measured way that doesn’t exclude people. It’s not a single sex group, so really what does it matter if people in the group identify as non-binary. While I might think it’s nonsense in a mixed sex setting I wouldn’t want to exclude anyone because I didn’t agree with the way they express their identity. Self absorbed is as strong in tone as ridiculous - you can’t claim offence without recognising that your own language was offensive in tone too.

If you want a GC writing club then starting one may be a good idea, but gatekeeping another group isn’t on.

Sorry, missed where you said trying to recruit new people and just saw about characters - agree with pp in that anyone should feel welcome to join

They didn't ask for your opinion on non binary people though did they? It's all well and good saying to the guy you'd make people feel welcome but your disdain for non binary and gender non conforming people is palpable - so I very much doubt that you'd keep your feelings hidden in reality when confronted by such a person.

You are ridiculous and I'm not surprised the group leaders didn't back you up.

I’m sorry OP, I’m also as GC as they come but I think phrasing your response like that it was inevitable that ppl who knew nothing about the issue would be taken aback and immediately peg you as just being ‘mean’ about a friends daughter