Binders and breathing issues

I assure you the man in question has absolutely no issues with how he was referenced, but your concern is appreciated!

Indeed he is.

Cool, pass on my tips then

I'm not sure someone would be happy to be referred to as "a 34G", sounds like something even The Sun would shy away from.
Maybe a 34 (space) G.

"I know a size 16 who works as a veterinary nurse"
Maybe not.

[quote FlyingOink]*No, I'm not, I'll let this peer-reviewed publihed paper do that. Transition regret is extremely low (

*No, I'm not, I'll let this peer-reviewed publihed paper do that. Transition regret is extremely low (

This seems quite disparaging. Do you also consider a 5'10" cis woman with size 10 feet and a 42" underbust to be an inadequate example of her sex?
Was just offering advice as I wear men's clothing. I don't consider myself inadequate.

You used this person as an example, I hope they were happy for you to do so.

Older trans men are also rare, when you don't look for them. I know of plenty, but I take it we move in different social circles.

Regret is rare

Especially when you don't look for it , when it is stigmatised , and when the transitioned person would lose even more if they went back

decades ago transistion wasn't an option for distressed women and none of those women now regret not being born more recently

Strange that

What ratio is acceptable? What percentage of collateral damage are you prepared to sustain?
You're not even suggesting the majority suffer no consequences, just that some transmen suffer no consequences.

No, I'm not, I'll let this peer-reviewed publihed paper do that. Transition regret is extremely low (

Tea and Arabella, indeed. He should have been sacked and then charged, but the girls were socialised to do as they were told. I doubt they told their parents as they were all being systematically shamed and denoralised. I felt I could have torn his heart out of his chest just hearing about it years later.

In my own teaching days we had to line girls and boys up separately before lessons (why?!) and I clocked some boys "rating" the girls breasts as they filed past. Mixed lines after that, whatever SLT said, and said boys detentioned, torn off a strip and parents notified. It stopped. In my classes.

Girls and women run the gauntlet of the male gaze - and mouth - every single day. It's the boys and men who need to change, and it's not women's sole job to change them.

I know of a 34G
A man with a 34 inch chest and arms proportionate for a female is going to have trouble finding shirts, I suggest you point this person in the direction of a tailor.
For casual wear, it's going to be between an extra small and and extra extra small, depending on the manufacturer. Probably best to stick to boyswear.

You're not even suggesting the majority suffer no consequences, just that some transmen suffer no consequences.

There are people who smoke 40 cigarettes a day and don't get cancer, you know.

In some cases one can get drunk and drive a car without an accident

Does that mean we should allow drunk driving ?

Transmen on reddit are discussing permanent pain and permanent damage caused by binding, and how it comes with much worse mastectomy outcomes, but even their voices are being silenced.

Other trans (space) men are discussing experiences of long-term safe binding wihtout those negative consequences, and have had entirely successful top surgery, even with quite sizeable breasts (I know of a 34G who had a perfect result after binding for about 4-5 years).

The breast tissue does have to go somewhere, and it's not just flattened breasts that are the problem, but permanent back pain and rib deformation. There's no safe way to bind. I've advised a cup sized sports bra and a vest, or layers of clothes, to girls who have asked about binding on social media.
I developed a hunched posture for the same reason, and wore minimiser bras. I probably would have tried binding if it was about at the time, and I wouldn't have been concerned about health risks. In the same way I wasn't concerned about health risks for a lot of the stupid stuff I did when I was younger.
This isn't about risk minimisation, this is the equivalent of stopping a toddler playing with a power socket. You don't put the toddler in rubber boots, you keep them away from the socket.
The thing is, teenagers have a much stronger sense of self, hate being patronised and can often argue articulately. Still doesn't mean we should let them hurt themselves.
Transmen on reddit are discussing permanent pain and permanent damage caused by binding, and how it comes with much worse mastectomy outcomes, but even their voices are being silenced.
I have a lot of sympathy for girls who want to be as invisible as they can be, especially to boys and men. Schoolboys these days have been watching hardcore pornography since primary school. I'd want to hide too.
Schools have rules about skirt length and hair colours, it would be easy to ban binders too. They're not religious headgear, are they? Schools should display some leadership.

I fucking despise the capitalist patriarchy that has turned breasts from a source of nourishment into something that must be bound out of existence.

I worked with a colleague who recalled a secondary maths teacher who often used to line half a dozen or so girls up at the front of the class in ascending order of breast size to illustrate something or other.

SAY WHAT???!!!!????????
That's horrendous!!!!

The trouble with binding is that you don't know they're doing it unless they tell you. How is a PE teacher supposed to take what is effectively a hidden, self-imposed, artificial disability into account when leading a lesson? Someone is going to end up being sued in a scenario like this, or worse, a young woman is going to lose her life.

Of course no -binary children with breasts could call them something else, but they don't. Breasts are perceived as awkward and embarrassing purely because they attract unwanted comment and attention from boys and men. It's that that needs to change!

I worked with a colleague who recalled a secondary maths teacher who often used to line half a dozen or so girls up at the front of the class in ascending order of breast size to illustrate something or other. Hers were always the largest. Humiliation at the hands of a powerful and unchallengeable man.

I get it; I do. But if binders and later double mastectomies are the answer desperately unhappy girls and young women reach for, don't we need to go further back to the source of the problem?

My hunch is that the teenage girls are keen to try to get away from the unwanted attention having breasts gives them while they are still so young they can't handle it (not that they should have to handle it, at any age).

Yes, I'm sure this is a large part of the reason, and in that respect it's similar to the reasons for breast ironing in some communities, except in this case the wish to do it is coming from the girls rather than their parents.

But there's no reason why a 'non binary' gender identity couldn't inhabit any sort of body is there? Isn't that the whole point, that the body isn't a marker of the 'non-binary' identity, the identity being more important than the body?

The mere fact that women can have penises according to gender ideology indicates that the body is not in any way expected to 'match' someone's gender identity.

So this does look as though a NB identity with accompanying breast binding is just a way for girls to escape unwanted attention from males. Just saying that they don't like being ogled and so want to hide their breasts isn't enough. They have to adopt a gender identity which legitimises their desire to escape unwanted attention from males.