Is there any proof/statistics that back up the claim that trans people are the most marginalised and abused communities?

No they are not, it's insulting really and not sure why it's accepted as fact in some circles.

The trans murder rate is particularly high in places like Brazil, from what I've read. But that's due to a lot of issues: high murder rates generally, attitudes towards homosexuality and prostitution, drug abuse etc.

Most of the transwomen I've encountered are white, middle class and home-owners, though I'm not sure how many went through to HE. One or two have been wealthy professionals. One was in the army. Those are the older ones. The younger ones are very middle class: students and young graduates/ professionals, nicely spoken and literate.

The transmen I've encountered are different. Fewer of them and they tended to be butch lesbians, much more working class and sadly too often from family backgrounds that included abuse.

How marginalised can transgender people be when they are publicly represented by people in positions of influence and power (people like Pip Bunce, Martine Rothblatt, Rachel Levine [US assistant secretary for Health]) Many more, but I have a poor memory for names.

There are transgender people visible in the police, the army, in medicine in this country and abroad. They are much more visible and much more powerful than, say lesbians and gay men, who had to fly under the radar for years. For years unmarried men and women who wanted to stand as political candidates were advised to marry in case people thought they were gay or lesbian. We now have transgender candidates like Sarah Brown, Heather Peto, Lily Madigan et al.

It's a real kick in the guts for us older gay and lesbian people to keep hearing how marginalised and powerless trans people are. Many of us spent the first half of our adult lives as literally second-class people: with fewer actual rights than everyone else. Sorry, don't mean to moan — but perspective does put a bit of a spin on it.

(Tldr: yes, women are more marginalised, and can't identify out of it.)

A lot of statistics about it are from black sex workers in South America. And yes, being a black trans sex worker in Brazil is dangerous and terrible. Even then; addicted, trafficked, underage hill tribe female sex workers in Thailand? Or mine slaves in Africa? Or girls forced into FGM and then forced underage marriages? Or the poor female judges in Afghanistan right now?

It doesn't make sense to rank oppression like Top Trumps.

I think it's important to bear in mind that 'transpeople' are not one thing.

Sue Pascoe, former Master of Foxhounds, Chartered Accountant and now LGBT advisor to Channel 4 is not marginalised. Neither is cake-and-eat-it Pips Bunce, or India Willoughby or extreme porn advocate and media regular Jane Fae.

However, I'd argue the young females with fragile mental health and self-harm scars that pre-date their double mastectomy scars are pretty marginalised. They don't have the ear of the government or the media, and they certainly don't have the ear of people like the above who would claim to be their 'community'.

Depends what you mean by marginalised. Being murdered on a weekly basis, suffering economic depravation, having no voice in media or politics. Nope. Poor old Marjory in accounts misgendering or using the wrong pronouns for the late transitioning "woman" whom she has known as a man for the last 20 years? If that's your idea of marginalisation, then yes it will happen a lot. Manufactured aggression/hate/marginalisation is at the core of the TRA movement.

Worldwide, and throughout history, it seem pretty clear that women are the most marginalised and abused community.

That is common throughout almost all cultures and times.

Now, that's less the case in the UK in recent decades, but just looking at the state of this debate, the old dynamics are back in play.

Generally, when controlled for other stats, trans people do have particular issues - mental health being the most notable. And I'm sure there is discrimination for being gender non-conforming. But I don't think there's any particular thing you could pick them out as "most" on.

There's no evidence of them being disproportionate victims of crime. Transwomen are victims of violent crime at a higher rate than women, it would appear. But a lower rate than men, so it's somewhere in-between men and women. A man seems to be statistically safer if transitioned (although it's unknown what the causality is).

The most outlandish stats like "35-year life expectancy" are fabrications. That particular one is the average age of transwomen murder victims in South America. But the average age of ALL murder victims is something like 35. And it's not average life expectancy.

Trans Day of Remembrance is particularly daft. Most years there are no trans murder victims in England. I don't believe there has been a single in Scotland since devolution, yet they still think TDoR is really important.

Rose of Dawn (transwoman) tears TDoR apart in these two videos:

Nice fact-check here from Channel 4.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

It’s not true. Women are the most oppressed group in the world - whatever background, race or class you care to choose. They always come off worse than men. And that’s because of their biology. It makes me so angry when they play the ‘trans people are the most oppressed’ card.

If you can “identify” out of your sex, then why couldn’t the young girls kidnapped by Boko Haram just claim to be men and evade capture? Why couldn’t any woman who’s raped or assaulted simply say she’s a man, and the rapist will leave her alone? Because biological sex is real and has huge implications.

Denying the reality of sex, and the unique rights needed to protect women, is IMO a western-imperialist idea that completely negates the reality of women’s much harder lives all around the world, but particularly in the global south. Women are brutalised, not because of how they “identify” but because of their biological reality.

Trans ideology is not only nonsensical, but it’s patronising and the ultimate expression of western imperialism IMO.

No.

You will probably need to state the country that you mean.

The Break it down for me thread is a useful resource on MN.

This is helpful for the UK: gcritical.org/introduction/

If you were to take the whole trans umbrella cohort, 300,000-500,000 in the UK, and worked out the socio-economic status of your "average trans person" my guess is you'd be looking at someone solidly in the middle class reasonably well provided for materially.

They love trotting out “we are the most marginalized group” nonsense when it’s a bunch of white, western men, many of whom are middle aged and lived most of their life as men who are now claiming this.

Pray tell me how a white western male is marginalized at all? Where? According to what? Not when you are from a wealthy nation, not when your nation has a social healthcare system, not when you are a man and have lived most of your life as such.

White western men are not marginalized at all! And if you choose to dress and live as a woman that does not make you a marginalized woman.

Even a young man who transitions who has come from a wealthy western country (let’s be honest that’s who is driving this), they have not experienced any sort of marginalization in their country. Having your feelings hurt because everyone won’t pander to you is not being marginalized.

No

So a man who is white and who transitioned in middle age is more marginalized than a black british woman or a black American woman? Or an Indian British woman or native indigenous Canadian woman?

These are just some examples… but is this what they are saying? Because they are wrong.

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Also Hubbard.. our trans friend from the Olympics won sportswoman of the year. Being marginalized works great only if you were born with a penis!

No there aren't. And the whole 'most marginalised' shtick being parroted over and over again is getting a bit tedious now tbh.

Trans people do face abuse and discrimination in public life, there are issues that the trans community face. They face violence from men who are terrified of any male who doesn't conform to their narrow view of masculinity.

However, there are also many examples of where they are definitely not 'marginalised' for example Tara Wolff physically assaulting Maria Mclachlan at speakers corner and then Maria being made to refer to her attacker as 'she', Karen White going into a female prison as a convicted rapist and then sexually assaulting female prisoners, Tyler Porter taking selfies with his erect penis out in a women's shelter, Jess Bradley campaigning for transwomen to be allowed in female spaces and then being caught flashing his penis all over town including at his place of work....I could go on here.

I have been wondering about this @Keke94LND, be very interested in the responses. Also if the number of incidents includes objecting to stickers and similar...glad you asked the question OP

No. Murders and crimes are quite high in some places, like the US. That applies to trans people in the US. A trans person wrote this www.queermajority.com/currents/tdor-trans-death-and-trans-life

In a word - no.