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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is anyone else struggling with the obvious unfairness of this issue

137 replies

Fariha31 · 06/10/2021 08:29

I am begining to find the obvious unfairness of how woman are being treated, combined with the seemingly universality of the voices going along with it, is begining to affect my mental health?
I dont know if its triggering things from my past or if its just the insanity of this moment but I am wondering how other people are copping with all this?

OP posts:
Artichokeleaves · 06/10/2021 13:19

Same, OP

There has never in my lifetime been a worse time to be female.
There has never in my lifetime been a worse time to be gay (and I was around during section 28- at least at that point there were LGB places to go where you were safe, allowed to not want straight sex and hadn't been colonised by conversion therapy beliefs, and anyone suggesting lesbians be raped, kerbstomped or died in a grease fire would have been thought of as a nutter no one wanted anything to do with)

There has never in my lifetime been a worse time to female and gay

It's very, very depressing. It makes me extremely angry. It is affecting my mental health.

But I daren't stop, because I will not look girls in the face and tell them, the 90s were as good as it ever got for women and girls, I was there and I've let you live in a world where being born female means you are less human, with less rights, where your main purpose in life is not to be yourself or have your own boundaries but is about providing male people with what they feel they need. Where male people use you to meet their needs. Where if you are vulnerable and in trouble, male people will be in the rape shelters and prisons, making it harder for you, and not caring because you being there works for them.

I have a responsibility to not quit and not shut up and one of the plus sides to this is that more and more women are starting to wake up and get fed up.

We're 52% of the electorate. Until they come for our vote (give them time) we've got a say.

oldwomanwhoruns · 06/10/2021 12:40

Wow, an interesting read, @OvaHere. Lysenkoism is new to me. I've read 'Wild Swans', so I know about the China famines, all caused by an insistence on applying a fanatical political belief to life. But putting an uneducated pheasant in charge of the whole agriculture of the USSR... madness.

Of course, they would never put fanatics in charge of, say, a big NHS institution carrying out experiments on children, in the UK, in 2021, now would they? Never going to happen. Never...

OvaHere · 06/10/2021 12:15

There are lots of cultural parallels in history to what is happening currently and they all eventually end.

What I find depressing though is that they never seem to end because the obvious harms become frequent and undeniable.

They tend to run their course because of other cultural shifts or incidental things and it's only years later that historians look back and go "yeah that was all pretty bad, what were people thinking".

This is a good article for anyone not familiar with Lysenkoism - an anti science ideology that permeated decades of the early 20th century and caused millions of deaths.

www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/12/trofim-lysenko-soviet-union-russia/548786/

TimeToDateAgain · 06/10/2021 12:14

One is that it feels as if everyone in a position of authority - politicians, judges, lawyers, academics, doctors - has decided to believe something quite obviously false.

According to Timothy Snyder ( On Tyranny ) aren't they the first professions to realise what's happening, go along with it to preserve their jobs, and then wring their hands that it's all gone so far?

oldwomanwhoruns · 06/10/2021 11:55

Yup @RoyalCorgi. Angry. ALL the time.
Fight back, OP.
You need to join up with women locally - they are there, you just need to find them. Start posting on on FB, little stuff to start with.
Perhaps start up a 'feminist book group'? No-one can cancel you for that, can they? Find other women who are on our side. Try joining existing groups? Get into action.

I keep thinking that this is JUST like the beginning of the Handmaid's Tale. First the women loose their jobs. Then their bank accounts are mysteriously cancelled. Then...

Franca123 · 06/10/2021 11:34

I feel lost as to how to bring up a daughter in this environment. How do I ensure she is proud to be a woman and that she doesn't take any crap from anyone. Sport has always been an important part of my life. Will single sex hockey teams exist by the time my daughter is old enough to want to play? Will she be forced to change in front of male pupils and teachers? I honestly could cry thinking about it. My partner isn't keen on a single sex school but surely this is the safest option? Or maybe not? Can gender critical women set up schools so we can ensure our daughters are afforded the respect they deserve whilst receiving their education.

RoyalCorgi · 06/10/2021 11:24

I am angry more or less all the time.

There are two elements to this. One is that it feels as if everyone in a position of authority - politicians, judges, lawyers, academics, doctors - has decided to believe something quite obviously false. That the world is flat, for example. And they have all implemented flat earth policies throughout schools, hospitals, the legal system, the rest of society. And has punished anyone who dares say "Er, the earth isn't flat?"

The other element is as if they have all decided to advocate for something society had always previously agreed was immoral, like sex with children or FGM. Now sex with children is fine, apparently, and anyone who says otherwise is a wicked person who wants to deny children basic human rights.

In fact, I don't even think my examples do justice to the horror of it. This is an ideology that is all about mutilating children's bodies and turning them adults who are sterile and have no sexual function. Who could possibly think that was a good idea?

Loads of people, it turns out.

Teaandcakeordeath83 · 06/10/2021 11:24

I feel the same Op. I have two young daughters and I'm absolutely terrified and furious in equal measure at what is happening and how this regressive and misogyny fuelled shift will impact them. I alternate between thinking "fight" and then utter despair that all is lost as this is just too big a beast to shove back in a box. I'm a scientist, a massive "lefty" and an atheist and I've seen all of those categories that I previously identified with falling to gender ideology. I feel politically and socially homeless. It doesn't feel like a good time to be a woman or raising young girls.

milkytwilightt · 06/10/2021 11:22

It’s causing me such anxiety. Especially as I have a daughter and I fear so much for her future. Yesterday I was looking at hormone free contraception and on the NHS website for the coil they refer to women as ‘people with wombs’. However for the vasectomy they refer to men as men. I just don’t understand it. If we want to reduce people to their anatomy then surely it should apply to everyone and not just women

NonnyMouse1337 · 06/10/2021 11:20

I find it very upsetting as well to realise how little women and their needs are valued. The sheer speed with which our rights are being ignored or rolled back is so disconcerting. I will never be able to look at things the same way again.

SpindleWhirl · 06/10/2021 11:19

You're definitely not alone, and it is a really deep injustice, made worse by the fact that society's attitude is basically misogyny-is-definitely-a-thing-in-the-West-and-really-bad-but-oh-not-that-bad-stop-making-a-fuss-you're-being-horrible-to-men-and-misogyny-isn't-really-a-thing-anymore-in-the-West.

I think that's what's messing with my head, @PetriDisher.

@Babdoc, you're a medical doctor aren't you, I dimly recall? From a psychological perspective, are the many young women involved in this blinkered movement of moral superiority trying in some way to cope with the horrors of misogyny through their 'faith'?

Much as I despair of them and their pretty aggressive tactics against other women, they do seem quite damaged and unhappy.

Fariha31 · 06/10/2021 11:18

@ArtemesiaK

I have this deep anxiety at the moment that even the Conservatives will come down in favour of self ID. Then, even if I spoilt my ballot, it would be impossible for anyone to be elected that wasn't in favour of destroying women's rights.... I feel despair that our concerns aren't being taken seriously, even as politicians rail against violence against women and girls.... So no, OP, you're definitely not alone...
Me too. It terriffies me. Sad
OP posts:
Franca123 · 06/10/2021 11:14

I find it very upsetting. Knowing how little people value women. How our power in society is dependant on men allowing us to have it. I've distanced myself from a few people now I know their true view of women. I found having to leave the Libs Dems hard. Although cheered up a lot yesterday when a friend said out of nowhere she thought pansexual was bollox and they were just bisexual. I think we all need to drop hints everywhere as to how we feel and that emboldens others to speak their minds. My feeling is that the vast majority are GC too.

Fariha31 · 06/10/2021 11:09

Thanks for all the replys, it helps to know there are so many women aware of what is happening despite the deadening silence from the bodies you would exspect to be guarding against and highlighting injustice.
I think what really triggers me is the fact that people in power refuse to recognise what we are saying even though it is entirely sensible and reasonable. It really reminds me of being a kid for some reason. Being dismissed and ridculed is such a common experiance for women.
It really does feel like we are in some kind of dystopian nightmare. As a non white woman who grew up in the 80s, there was always injustice (though things have changed for the better in some areas, imo out and out racism ended in this country in the early 90s) but there was never anything as insaine as what is going on now.
And it seems like people I would have exspected to never go along with this madness are going along with it, it just beggers belief!

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 06/10/2021 10:10

I came to adulthood in the 80s as well and had children in the late nineties and early two thousands. I feel horrified that my children are coming of age at a time when things are so awful. If I could go back, I might think twice about bringing them into the world, but I didn’t have any idea things would start going so far in the wrong direction, not just with women’s rights, but other things too, like job security.

You are definitely not alone Fariha31. Sometimes I have to step right back. Other times I feel stronger and can fight more.

I think there are lots of us though. You can see it in the pushback on Twitter and in the speed with which almost every related fundraiser goes up.

ArtemesiaK · 06/10/2021 10:03

I have this deep anxiety at the moment that even the Conservatives will come down in favour of self ID. Then, even if I spoilt my ballot, it would be impossible for anyone to be elected that wasn't in favour of destroying women's rights....
I feel despair that our concerns aren't being taken seriously, even as politicians rail against violence against women and girls....
So no, OP, you're definitely not alone...

Babdoc · 06/10/2021 10:03

There are only two options here. Give in and let women’s rights go back to the dark ages.
Or fight.
I know which I prefer!
I may add, I’m a sixty something radfem, who goes back before the Equal pay act, before legal abortion, and I think the current war on women is more shocking than anything I lived through - because it is being conducted by terrifyingly blinkered woke idiots who are convinced of their moral superiority and are trying to block any discussion. It is like the days of the Maoist cultural revolution or the McCarthy witch hunts. Old time sexists were a doddle by comparison, and were willing to engage in debate and change misogynistic laws.

TheABC · 06/10/2021 09:55

I sometimes think we need a collective "red tent", a female-only space where we can rest from the relentless barrage of misogyny.

BraveBananaBadge · 06/10/2021 09:53

Also, coming to the realisation you're politically homeless is hard too. That is affecting me.

But as others have said it is good to be able to help with crowdfunders and the like. People like Maya and JKR are always a shining light of sense and compassion in the face of such mindless smears and abuse.

beguilingeyes · 06/10/2021 09:50

I have long thought that we're going backwards in terms of women's rights. The pornification of society is hugely depressing.
Dominic Raab saying that misogyny against men is wrong too is just mind-boggling. The man's a lawyer?
Sometimes (most of the time) it feels that there's no hope.

BraveBananaBadge · 06/10/2021 09:49

Yes. It's a small thing next to the very real visceral fear in the wake of Sarah Everard, but I'm getting so upset by things.

One of my favourite podcasts (American, gay male hosts) devoted a section of an episode recently to 'of course, because a woman can have a penis and gender doesn't matter at all these days' and it just feels like a punch in the stomach.

It stuck me all of this has come from the States and their have-it-all culture and I just feel so resentful. What they're saying is equivocally not true and has real life implications beyond their fantasy land, but they believe it wholeheartedly and it is just becoming more and more ingrained in the culture. Why?

It was the realisation that my local council considered 'women don't have penises' stickers as abominable hate speech that send me over the mountain and it seems common sense is just not prevailing.

Daisyxo · 06/10/2021 09:46

It is quite depressing reading this so I just want to try and provide some reassurance that I don’t think everything is lost or is going backwards! It may seem all doom and gloom right now but I really believe as a result of all the coverage at the moment things will change for the better. Keep your heads up ladies!

PetriDisher · 06/10/2021 09:44

Oh for an edit button.

PetriDisher · 06/10/2021 09:42

You have put it perfectly and I completely relate.

Sometimes I find it helpful to step away for a while and focus only on trivial or pleasantly domestic things for a while ('self-care' in modern parlance!) Don't feel guilty about it - we all need to recharge. Sometimes u find it helpful to defiantly donate to a crowd-funder or relevant charity everyone I feel like I'm going to explore with the injustice of it all.

You're definitely not alone, and it is a really deep injustice, made worse by the fact that society's attitude is basically misogyny-is-definitely-a-thing-in-the-West-and-really-bad-but-oh-not-that-bad-stop-making-a-fuss-you're-being-horrible-to-men-and-misogyny-isn't-really-a-thing-anymore-in-the-West.

ComprehensiveTea · 06/10/2021 09:39

@MildredsMoustache

Nevertheless for someone who came of age in the 90s with the sense that big equality battles had been won it's shock to realise these things are not linear and they can and do go backwards.

Yes, this. I really struggle with this.

Yeah. I second this (as somebody who came out of age in the 80s).

I'm angry, and slowly chanelling my anger into action. Small things, chipping in on fundraisers when I can, scouting for volunteering opportunities, stuff like that.

For me, that's how I deal with it.

Also, know that you're NOT alone.