Carrie and stonewall

The short speech is here:

Very bland, it's all "LGBT+" as a monolithic entity (but no Q), there is at least one passing mention of gender identity, and she talks about conversion therapy although won't understand that it has very different meanings for LGB and for T.

Liz truss was at the meeting, I wonder if anyone from stonewall was there? (I’d love to be a fly in the walk for that!)

twitter.com/hannahalothman/status/1445445336890101765?s=21

I thought Carrie’s speech was very bland and in fact noted that she didn’t mention trans rights specifically at all.

I agree. The conservatives are the only party who are not in favour of self ID. So CJ is being used to tell the world, they are LGBT friendly. None of that means they’ve changed their minds and will bring in Self ID.

twitter.com/sarahstuartxx/status/1305047726896414720?s=21

Elena Bunbury is a name I've heard before.

No relative to Germaine, I presume.

Johnson gave her speech after a young activist spoke out in defence of transgender people following controversy over the decision to admit a group called the LGB Alliance to the Conservative conference. Formed in 2019, it has invited accusations of transphobia by accusing mainstream gay rights groups of “extremism” on gender identity.

What do they mean by 'mainstream gay rights groups'? Isn't that what the LGB Alliance is? Other organisations like Stonewall now appear to be trans rights groups, or LGBTQI+ groups which are not specifically about gay rights.

I read the guardian twaddle first. This piece is much clearer. She could have been crying about anything, there are monstrous stories of homophobia in far too many countries that affect millions of people.

I’m not sure what her point was, but I expect that’s the point?

Isn’t Carrie close to Zac Goldsmith who’s been tweeting about Keira’s case?

She so specifically didn’t mention trans rights, that I think it was actually a very carefully considered speech by whoever wrote it.

Elena Bunbury was the LGBTCons representative who reported getting death threats from TRAs peeved at the presence of an LGB Alliance stand at the Tory Conference. Somehow this didn't give her pause for thought.

Nah, I reckon that Carrie is being strategic. Or being used as strategic.

to try and get the few transinclusive votes.

You don't to be the mother of the prime minister's children without understanding strategy (and the law of averages)

Sajid Javid, the health secretary, suggested that gender-neutral language could cost lives. He said the NHS must talk about “women” when sending invitations for cervical screening, rather than language that includes trans men.
Great. I hope he insists on this.

Er - this would be the same Boris Johnson who wrote about “tank topped bum boys” when he was a journalist? That one?

But everything’s okay now because his wife is dancing at a Tory conference nightclub, and he wore a pink hat, thus engaging with the entire LGBT experience of dancing and pink objects (oh give me strength). They can’t even stop stereotyping when they are trying sentimentally to be “allies”. Give over.

And yes having looked at it, she doesn't seem to be making it all about trans rights, despite the headlines.

Why exactly should we be listening to Carrie on this? Did we elect her?

Someone else who doesn't mention trans rights (though through bluster refers to the law that allow someone to change their 'gender')

twitter.com/gbnews/status/1445372555754450944?s=21

Everyone should live with dignity and respect - so women too right?

How can Carrie talk about "the abuse LGBT+ people still face" and not be aware - especially with LGB Alliance being right there – that there is a schism between the LGB and the T, and trans ideologues are telling people it's wrong to be same-sex attracted and abusing them for it?

Also I thought Carrie was close to Nimco Ali who appears to be GC. She can't not know about the current issues.

I thought Carrie’s speech was very bland and in fact noted that she didn’t mention trans rights specifically at all.

I wouldn't have said you need to agree with affirmative action approaches to be a feminist, but I guess I can see why someone might see that as part of it, especially at age 20.

the guardian has an odd take

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/carrie-johnson-urges-tories-to-back-transgender-rights

she does not explicitly mention transgender rights

she just makes a few bland statements

Elena Bunbury, the 23-year-old chairwoman of the LGBT+ Conservatives, rebuked a heckler as she said that her group’s priority was protecting trans people

What a surprise. So not really LGB at all then.

"and extend those rights".

That's an interesting phrasing. It implies that not only do rights people already have need to be upheld, which I think is a very reasonable principle, but that there are rights people should have but don't. I'm not sure what those would include in this context other than the right certain people to access opposite sex services and spaces.

But these kinds of speeches never really get down to the nitty-gritty. It's all we won't discuss the existence of trans people without any real examination of what it actually means to be trans. When we talk about the rights of women, people who aren't white, the disabled, we general have a sense of who that includes and there are a few instances where we need to actually define it fairly clearly in order to allow for accommodations. To say that's an illegitimate exercise is quite the claim.

Ah well, she's not in elected office.

Elena Bunbury is a name I've heard before. Was she on here? Is she mates with Carrie? Well if they are I hope they enjoy dancing the night away.

"the 23-year-old chairwoman of the LGBT+ Conservatives, rebuked a heckler as she said that her group’s priority was protecting trans people. “There’s been a lot of debate surrounding this conference,” she said. “Trans lives and rights have been continually brought into question. We are the party of free speech, we are the party of debate, and I myself am a liberal, but trans people’s rights to exist is not a topic that is up for discussion.”

So free speech, debate...has anyone said that trans people don't exist?

And then, from 2019

“But,” she says firmly, “I’ve never classed myself as a feminist and I still don’t.” The reason for this, she says, is that she associates feminism with positive discrimination. This includes all-female shortlists for MP selection and tokenism on everything from corporate boards to speaking panels. “It’s so patronising. I’ll be on panels and think, ‘Am I here on my own merit or because I’m here to fill a quota?’ It demerits me and teaches women that they’re not good enough to stand against men.

“I’ve always supported meritocracy, but I think this experience has also made me realise that women are more disadvantaged than I first thought. But I’m overcoming those challenges, without men having to step aside. Do I feel like sometimes I’ve been treated badly because I’m a woman? Yes, but I’m getting offered more opportunities than men because they need to get their women numbers up, which is where my issue comes in.”

Elena Bunbury: I was shouted at and called ‘Tory tits’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4ee32096-99ba-11e9-abb4-0b4b1e74d343?shareToken=ec0fb830590a5fee0a1151d498810ee6