Heads up. Posie on Triggernometry Tomorrow Sun 3rd 7pm

It was an interesting watch- I definitely didn't agree with all of it. I think Konstantin's support for actively teaching stereotypes (couldn't tell if he was serious or playing devil's advocate tbh) is a real life illustration of the backlash that is at risk of happening. I found it frustrating there wasn't more of a discussion of how to take the positives of changes from the last 20 years whilst getting rid of the negatives, it seems more like they were fully ready for the pendulum to swing all the way back and damn the consequences.

Yes I do agree but it was also to make the point that it is also mothers that are raising the alarm and trying to protect children. I just think posie gave the impression mothers in general are responsible for the mess and to an extent that is true but it’s also mothers ( Mumsnet, posie, plenty of others) that are raising the alarm.

I don't entirely agree with that, TBH. There are some mums where that is the case. Others seem almost gleeful and to be the ones pushing it, especially with very young kids like Suzy Green or Jazz Jennings mum. I know at least one mum of a teen girl who seems to be quite thrilled to be a "trans mum" now too. I don't know of any dads who seem to take quite the same role.

Mother’s on the whole have swallowed the suicide mantra and rainbow narrative ( as intended) and above all want their children to be happy. That’s what motivates them in my view.

You'd think Mumsnet of all places would be the place to destroy that zombie claim but it can't be raised in the high-traffic places where the people who need to see it would read it.

The point she made about mother’s of trans kids mainly being the ones pushing for this (and by implication partly to blame for the whole narrative) is plausible but I think the motivation is entirely different to that of the middle aged adult males also pushing for it. Mother’s on the whole have swallowed the suicide mantra and rainbow narrative ( as intended) and above all want their children to be happy. That’s what motivates them in my view.
And it should also be mentioned on the flip side is that it is also mother’s ( in particular mumsnet) that have been discussing the harm and blowing the whistle including poise herself and long before KK and FF had any inkling what a problem it was going to be.

Not RTFT, sorry, but I have just watched this & she is very good. I admire the way she stays calm because I get really het up when trying to explain this shitshow to people.
Well worth a watch if you haven’t already seen it.

Yes EmbarrassingAdmissions. I think you're right.

'seemed to descend into sex stereotypes are good because they teach boys to be “real men” and it’s all feminist’s fault. hmm'

Yes, that was all pretty frustrating, as was get suggestion that her husband having a cry would be 'not very attractive'🙄

I do enjoy listening to her though, she's so clear and presents things in very accessible way

Yet again we see the worst slurs used about trans people by the ones supposedly supporting them.

Maybe you should explain your choice of words because that term was not used in the video posted nor was it put as a quote. Just a direct statement from an “ally”.

Females in a female toilet require privacy, precisely because it's often 'not just a place to pee'.

Something that males, however they identify, don't get.

Just watched the whole thing. Excellent - I didn't agree with everything she said, but I adore her give-no-fucks attitude and her clarity.

Do you think males should go into women's single sex spaces? If so, do you know which males are less of a threat to women or make them less uncomfortable than others? If some males, why not all males?

Unfortunately the members of the male sex who identify as women are statistically just as much of a threat to women as any other males. There may be another group of males who are less of a threat, however transwomen are not part of that group.

Whenever I see or hear "they just want to pee", these days this is the mental image that comes to my mind:

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1159347638644465664

That's one of the mild images. There are some horrors out there.

@Gottalife It suggests to me she just wants the self id-ing scum to be shot for going for a pee.

The only person calling people 'scum', and suggesting someone else wants them 'to be shot' for using the toilets designated for the opposite sex, is you in your post @Gottalife. That is not contained in the brief edited video excerpt you linked.

I don't know what to make of your reference to 'pee', as all males can use the toilet usually designated for their own sex. They don't need to choose between having no toilet facilities, or using the 'ladies'. Indeed, they may be quicker in the 'gents' as there are urinals which better suit a male's anatomy. That is outside of the potential safety issues or discomfort caused to women.

Do you think males should go into women's single sex spaces? If so, do you know which males are less of a threat to women or make them less uncomfortable than others? If some males, why not all males?

I am interested in that as there were revelations of abuse by 'men of the cloth' in Ireland which came out many years later. Fine, decent men, or so regarded by the establishment at the time. Yet men placed themselves in the church in Ireland where they were regarded as 'good men'; to escape certain safeguards applied to other men and so could carry out abuse. Maybe that could have all been avoided if there was a special detector.

She did give them a bit of "a look" when he started going on about stereotypes.

@PumpkinCrumble

I’m usually a fan of Triggernometry but I thought it was shit. Didn’t cover any new ground and seemed to descend into sex stereotypes are good because they teach boys to be “real men” and it’s all feminist’s fault.

Still, I expect Posie goes on there to reach a wider audience than just the two guys sitting in front of her.

And at least they were aghast at kink being taught in universities and helping women to be prostitutes to pay for their course.

Well that didn't disappoint!

It was good to have a 'look back' perspective and see Francis' and Konstantin's minds blown over the kink clubs at U.K universities.

Interesting to hear how some of their friends/family have reacted or responded since the last interview as well. I'm not surprised that was the most-watched. Posie and the one with Dr Ella Hill, grooming gang survivor, have been the ones I have shared the most.

I’m usually a fan of Triggernometry but I thought it was shit. Didn’t cover any new ground and seemed to descend into sex stereotypes are good because they teach boys to be “real men” and it’s all feminist’s fault.

It’s a good watch

Yeah trigpods

It’s the out and out lies that are told

Thank you again.

The same (white) person, who believes football is intrinsically racist, regularly posts pictures from the latest BLM, anti Brexit, extinction rebellion march to the extent that causes seem to have been reduced to entertainment.

This board, indeed MN generally, can be frustrating. But also interesting as it gives an insight into the thinking of people you might not normally have conversations with. I am white, middle class and southern, though as a twist spent time in Asia, in a very race conscious country, have many Asian friends (easier for me to cross race divides) and speak an Asian language. I have also manage property and spent a decade organising care for my mother, which meant contact with and trust in quite a diverse (and wonderful) set of people. My family is London Irish, so my dad was of a generation when Irish Catholics were still othered, and not fully accepted.

So lazily I wish race would just go away. I am who I am, and want to just take people as I find them. But accept that this is naïve.

I personally would be very surprised if PP were racist. I think she is just for women and girls, regardless of race or creed.

For anyone who is interested in exploring what PP said and the contemporaneous MN discussion then entering this will return a number of threads.

As I suspected, it seems to have been in response to a livestream although whether this has its roots in the comments or a superchat question is unclear.

site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights PP guns men

It wasn't THAT long ago that black players who missed penalties in the Euros were racially abused. It was all over the news and social media. I could perhaps understand somebody who doesn't like football missing this...but someone who is allegedly a football fan...?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-57848761.amp

I don't know what she was suggesting.

What she seemed to be suggesting was a sort of reverse Man Friday. The bit about guns was a 'maybe you carry a gun, maybe you don't', so not specifically about those who did (it's not clear why she even mentioned guns, apart from perhaps to appeal to a certain demographic who like to protect 'their' women.)

It was poorly thought out on her part (I think she deleted the video when she realised how it looked).

When Man Friday started up it was discussed on here about men using women's spaces as part of the protest, but it was generally seen as counter-productive because it would cause unnecessary distress to women who didn't know what the protest was about. I think some posters on here, like Posie, thought it would be a good idea until the negative impact on women was pointed out to them.

I get the impression that Posie is someone who often speaks first and then thinks. This seems to have been one of those occasions.