Is the tide turning? Women's rights in the news

I am absolutely shattered this week from what’s gone on: The Lancet, the moronic comments from members of the Labour Party (I am a now resigned, previously dedicated ex member), Sarah Everard. I don’t think the tide is turning, but I am heartened to see such wonderful women speaking out and saying no. Amongst all of this bat shittery, sunlight is streaming in. I do think we are now at our most vulnerable though, those who’ve digested the mantras, convinced themselves ‘it’s all so inclusive, and all so kind’ will now double down, because even if they don’t actually believe what they are saying, there’s turning back for them now. I think the best we can hope for right now is that the Tories use ‘cervix gate’ as a cynical political weapon therefore cementing their position not to reform the GRA. But if public opinion turns or the pressure from the TRAs gets too much, the Tories will be no friends of our either. We need to keep fighting like never before.

The stories of astonishingly blatant women-hating violence (Sarah Everard et al) will be 'last month's news' soon enough and when people have paid the appropriate amount of lip service they'll move on to the next thing (I'm still reeling at how little has been done re Grenfell, as an example).

The other women's rights stuff - I think the 'average' person must be more aware now at least of what is happening? I don't think there is any huge change but I think resistance is quietly increasing.

It will still be hard work to achieve any progress. But I think we will.

Sorry think is not what you all talking about here but the authoritarian thing is same thing. People only want to hear one thing one opinion and don't want to think about wider things. Think is group think. Am victim and people maybe think am stupid for being one but people don't understand other people's lives how easy sometimes. Am not stupid about knowing what is the problems.

It used to be said that the biggest backlash will occur when the rising cohort of transitioned girls grow up and realise they’ve been sterilized

A WHRC webinar earlier this year had a presentation by a Swedish author (Kajsa Ekis Ekman) who reported that she had been contacted by a Swedish infertility clinician who claimed to be seeing increasing numbers of women in their 20s who (after testing) have atrophy of their reproductive organs. These are women who had been treated with puberty blockers and cross hormones at a young age (Dutch protocol) and gone on to have difficulty with conception. (It seems that they had detransitioned but this wasn't entirely clear.)

The thing is, although I want women's rights restored, I also want the ideology to fade in a fashion that's kind to those such as my young transman relative. Those who have damaged a healthy body in pursuit of it.

I don't think there is an answer to that one. I know that it makes more sense to reverse things now, admit that women stay women and men stay men whatever their inner view of themselves, reserve 'transition' for only those with awful dysphoria, and save the next generation from equal damage to their physical health.

But our family's youngster, and so many of my friends' kids and my kids' friends, have already gone too far to reverse out of it. I don't speak up on Facebook or other social media because it would be cruel to those I know.

Every time I think there is hope, I soon get disillusioned. You'd think that, with all the concern about murdered women, sexual assault in schools, etc, there might be some sympathy for women and girls wanting safe spaces. But nope, they save their support for "the most marginalised" people in society, blokes who think they're women (and expect us to believe it too). Makes me want to cry......

I thought the tide was turning a while back, but what has been revealed over the past couple of years is the sheer scale of the thing.

It looked a few weeks ago as if Stonewall was looking shaky, but now it’s looking more like a small tremor occurred, but everything up has moved on and it’s still largely intact.

The debate is now beginning in the UK, but it looks like some political parties are so dug in, that it’ll take a massive sea-change for them to shift. I find it interesting to see though, how hard some of these parties are now having to bend the rules and cheat to keep their preferred candidates in place, once the GC argument begins to be made. It’s still mostly women’s groups where that’s happening, but it’s a strong indicator that where transactivism has taken over, it’s not popular in the longer term. I think the harms become apparent quite quickly, which should be obvious because no male can really represent women as he doesn’t have the experience of what it feels like to actually be one.

I’ve also been interested to see stirrings in the US and that is new to me. Prior to Biden’s changes, there didn’t seem to be much pushback. Again, I suspect that the more these new laws and rules push more and more men, some of them predatory, into women’s spaces, and people begin to see the effects, they will receive more and more pushback. Those on this board are not generally keen on the US religious right, but there’s no doubt that religion has a much greater sway on politics over there. There could be some interesting clashes.

So I’m not holding my breath. I’m not completely convinced that we’ll ultimately be successful, even though I do believe we have right on our side. It used to be said that the biggest backlash will occur when the rising cohort of transitioned girls grow up and realise they’ve been sterilized, have had unnecessary surgery, their bones are crumbling, and actually, they’re not any happier (as they had been promised they would be). I hope we don’t have to wait that long.

There's beginning to be pushback in the UK.

The US is so totally captured, though. I haven't read a US-based article about pregnancy that post-dates 2018 that refers to 'pregnant women'. It is only ever 'pregnant people'. And there's certainly no mention of motherhood anywhere. It's the Brave New World.

I really, really wish the US would wake up.

Don’t feel too disheartened by the Lancet’s ridiculous headline of “bodies with vaginas”.
Look instead at the over 7,000 complaints on their Twitter feed, and the fact that their editor’s inbox was so swamped with outraged emails they had to temporarily close it down.
Just a couple of years ago there would have been nowhere near this level of pushback.

To win back what we have lost, we need every woman, and every man who cares about women's rights (and the rights of gay people and gender dysphoric children), to understand the existential threat we face

I do agree with this. I was talking to a friend who said some of her friends with children who are fully signed up to gender ideology were talking and saying, ' my son asked what makes a boy a boy and previously I would have said because he has a penis, but now that isn't true and I didn't know what to say to him.'
My GC friend said she stayed silent and hoped that the fact they couldn't define 'boy' would make them have a wake up call. But I told her she needed to start speaking there. We need to speak up. Yes, it did expose the utter vacuity of gender ideology that the sex-based definitions of ' boy' and 'girl' have been thrown out with nothing to replace them, but you need to have conversations with people about this to get them thinking about it.

To win back what we have lost, we need every woman, and every man who cares about women's rights (and the rights of gay people and gender dysphoric children), to understand the existential threat we face.

Completely this. We are living in the growing framework that facilitates authoritarianism. In the difficulties that lie ahead, some people will willingly sacrifice their freedom for the theatre of safety and not care about the consequences for others nor themselves in the future.

And it does all sound insane - people don't want to admit how oblivious they've been. And there's a huge advantage in that fighting against this is nearly always from the back foot. It's like having to demonstrate gravity all over again - meanwhile, the abuse of science, false narratives and zombie claims have taken hold and there's no official support for dislodging them.

We need a Women's FullFact as the actual FullFact seems pusillanimous in the face of this.

It has been reassuring to kee hearing the words women and girls today on radio, so often it’s “pregnant people” etc feels a rarity to just say the word. Small steps

To win back what we have lost, we need every woman, and every man who cares about women's rights (and the rights of gay people and gender dysphoric children), to understand the existential threat we face.

In WW2 terms, we have just started to evacuate Dunkirk. This is not the time to decide that victory is in the bag.

^ This is also how ideological change happens: slowly, then all at once.

I think we’re still chipping away at the edifice of genderism. I think it will continue to seem for a while as if all the chipping away we do isn’t accomplishing much, and all the damage TRAs can’t help doing to their own reputation and cause is having very little impact. But the structure is being eroded, and one day it will collapse.^

I can’t help feeling that is exactly what has happened with TRA ideology. Started slowly 20 odd years with the the foundations that have lead to the more recent eroding of women’s rights and safe spaces. The structures that protected our spaces are starting to collapse.

I don't believe anything will change in the light of the Sarah Everard case.

I also don't believe people who are very ardent in their pro trans rights and therefore anti women's rights views will change their minds whatever happens. They won't let go. It will rumble on and rumble and never get fully resolved one way or the other with 'wins' and 'losses' on each side which continually get challenged.

Coincidentally, I've just looked through some clinical guidelines.

Women weren't there although the words pregnancy, breastfeeding and childbearing were in company with people .

Women are being erased and dehumanised. Where language leads how long do you think it's going to take laws, regulations, social conventions etc. to follow?

Totally agree with MissLucy. I will probably word this really badly but whenever I read optimistic comments about something on Twitter or that some GC blogger has written I just end up thinking that millions of people whose days are filled up worrying about their jobs, bills, children, feeling guilty about climate change because their personal choices have to be based on the money in their account and not the welfare of the planet either (a) won't ever even get to hear about it or (b) won't give it headspace because the way It's reported by the mainstream makes it seem totally abstract and irrelevant.

There does seem to be a bit more questioning going on at the moment but the only way most people are going to sit up and take notice is if journalists make the implications of it all really clear.

Banging on about whether only women have a cervix might make someone think "wow he's bonkers" but that's probably not going to make the listener think "hmm well that will mean women can't insist on a female HCP or my 12 year old daughter might end up at Guide camp sleeping in the same room as a man."

Until everyone (and not just people who are already interested in the issue and know various names to follow/publications to read) understands what is happening and realises the implications for their own lives then I don't feel optimistic about the tide turning.

We're talking about institutions like the NHS, the police, judicial service, education having to lose face by overturning what they have embraced. Jesus, even my employer took 6 months to get rid of a bullying manager because they didn't want to admit that their decision to bring the person in was a total fuck up until an entire team went off sick for a week to force action.

There's a mention in this weeks Private Eye that Ben Hunte is no longer the BBC's LGBT+ correspondent and is now a senior reporter at Vice World News.

I cannot believe that women value their rights so little that they are prepared to see a bit of mainstream media coverage as the tide turning. Do you not understand the scale of what you have lost? I'm seriously beginning to wonder if all the posters wittering that the tide is turning are actually TRAs, trying to convince us not to fight on

I understand your anger and frustration and share how appalled you are at what has happened. But if people think a cause is lost they stop fighting, if people think there is not hope they stop fighting.
People have to keep on seeing the signs and opportunities for change and influence. Its a good thing that they do.

I do think something has changed in that more of the mainstream media seem to be discussing and challenging these issues. I think more people are noticing the problems. I think it's starting to be allowed to be discussed.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I agree with you, just one point, it wasn’t “people with vaginas”, it was “bodies with vaginas”.

I think they are moving in the direction of openly admitting that they don’t actually see us as “people”.

I don't know what the future will bring but it looks like its going to be authoritarian.

This is my dominant fear - we are so far along the road and we're facing a confluence of legal and political constrictions at a time when we're about to go into a period where people are going to be crushed by poverty and have a sustained drop in their living standards against a backdrop of inflation and the instability that brings.

What MissLucy said. And TheInebriarti.