How can I talk to my TWAW daughter?

Whole not while

It's tricky because she's so young. My DD is 23 and we have agreed never to discuss it. We both know what the other believes, we don't agree with each other.

I am very close to my DD and I am not willing to jeopardise that over this issue however strongly I feel about it. We never make reference to anything realting to it when in each others company

There are a very large number of teenagers at our local school who are questioning identity, gay, bi, neutral trans, there is a while load of phse or whatever they call it elsewhere promoting questioning identity....hmm ...no wonder so many confused teens are identifying with this current culture to present lbgtq? With 100's of different genders to select from..... it's a whole new craze

I think I'd play with it a bit, if the subject came up again or if it was out in the open that she'd called you transphobic.

If my child insisted on defining me from within the tenets of their new religion (which is the closest description for a belief in gender ID) I would ask that they at least afford me the respect they afford their friends. Under their religion I am obviously not a woman (because "cis woman" is regressive and offensive; I have no gender ID; I have no shared class with select males aside from race, ability and social class) so offspring must learn my new neo pronouns and respect my non binary identity (closest option to the truth). Householders that do not believe in gender ID are of course free to continue using sex based pronouns for me.

I believe the TWAW mantra is dangerous. Please ask your dd to read this.

1. Medical

Medical staff need to know your sex when carrying out tests, lung function tests in particular are based on sex, race and height. If you input details as a woman when you are assessing a trans woman you may not pick up asthma or any reduced flow leading to a TW not being treated.

Smear tests, only records for 'female' trigger a automatic invitation to smear tests and mammograms. If medical records recorded sex then TW would be called for prostate tests and TM for smears, when you arrive you are called by your chosen name and treated as your chosen gender.

For medical professionals it also allows us to be more discrete eg we can book a trans person's appointment at the start or end of a clinic so a TW is not sitting in a waiting area with men and TM are not in a clinic with women. Not everyone minds but it's nice to offer the option.

Some of the cross sex hormones can cause things like brittle bones so a trans person with a broken bone needs to have the hormones assessed as well as 'just' fixing the broken bone. Peter Tatchell has criticized Drs asking for medical details as being transphobic for taking a full medical history when it is necessary.

2. Individual rights

Not all TW believe they are women, Debbie Hayton is vocal that she can live as a woman, but she knows that the surgery and hormones just produce cosmetic changes, she doesn't have a cervix or a vagina, those cannot be created by any medical treatment.

Debbie has as much right to identify as a trans women who doesn't believe in the mantra TWAW and to say that TWANW as anyone else. Why should she be silenced? Surely acceptance is accepting trans people however they ID and allowing their stories to be heard.

3. Alternative therapy

Some people detransition, their voices should also be heard. Medical / surgical transition is the right thing for some people and they should be supported down that path, but they should also be allowed to explore other routes. Someone with body dismorphia may benefit from counseling about acceptance of their body regardless of whether they choose the surgical route. TWAW stops people seeking alternative routes that might be better for them as an individual.

As a medical professional I encountered a TW on a semi regular basis. Let's call her Lucy.

Lucy had body dismorphia and had chosen the surgical route, she had top surgery but during her assessments for 'bottom' surgery it was discovered she had a heart condition that meant she could not have the bottom surgery. Lucy hated her body more than ever and would self harm, and that's when I would encounter her. This is many years ago and I still think about her, I hope anesthetics have got better and that she got her surgery eventually. TWAW is not a mantra that would help her, counselling might.

4. Security of women.

Most TW do not have any surgery so retain male body strength, muscle max and sexual organs. A person with a penis should not be locked in a cell with a woman, particularly when the TW is a rapist.

5. Assaults on women and children

We know abusers will abuse, they will go to great lengths to do so, training as teachers or priests, getting involved with refugee charities, volunteering etc. The current idea of self ID leaves a huge open door for abusers to step through. No these are not genuine tw / tm but there is no way to assess this so it is sensible to keep them out of places where women and children are vulnerable eg toilets, disabled toilets are all gender neutral and don't you dare tell me it is 'degrading' because if it is good for me as a disabled person then it is good enough for a trans person. It also allows for TM dealing with a period to have access to a space they can wash and change.

In your opinion

I think building trust is more important - if a parent wants to snoop on their child’s phone, they need to be clear from the start that that is the condition of the child owning one.

That's what I said

Your 13 year old is gay? Tell her to google “cotton ceiling”. Job done.

I think building trust is more important - if a parent wants to snoop on their child’s phone, they need to be clear from the start that that is the condition of the child owning one.

I agree with pp about checking a teen’s phone but surely there also needs to be transparency in this? I will ask mine to hand over his phone at random times and look through it. He doesn’t know when I’m going to do this but he does then know what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t do it without his knowledge. (Then again I wouldn’t do this to DH and lots of people on here seem to do that)

OP "She doesn't know I saw that message and I worry about being criticised for"snooping" on her phone if I mention it."

It would be like throwing a bucket of petrol on a fire. You would likely never see her phone again. Possibly the worst thing you could do.

She doesn't know I saw that message and I worry about being criticised for"snooping" on her phone if I mention it

The privilege of owning a phone at that age comes with parents being able to check it. But that's outlined at the start. It's for their own safety.

Try giving her a copy of Irreversible damage by Abigail Shrier
If she wont read, get her to listen to the Bari Weiss podcast interview with Shrier.

I'd say something. She needs to be told not to be so disrespectful and she also needs to be told her views are factually incorrect. I might sound harsh, but pussyfooting around won't help her in her biology exams and when she's an adult, which will be soon enough, and joins the world of work, she'll need to know how to get on with adults who know more than she does and will disagree with her. Which she will eventually but the quicker she can the better. We can't be afraid to correct our children.

She’s 13. Bad mouthing you to her friends is practically compulsory. She may not have even meant it or believe it.
I wouldn’t say anything unless she brings it up, particularly as she might question how you found out how she felt about you and consider it a breach of trust.

I agree, just avoid having the conversation with her. DD and I get in perfectly well without discussing her TWAW views. I’m convinced that in time she’ll realise what trans activism is doing to women’s rights.

Out of interest though, how did you manage to read a text on her phone? I presume she wasn’t aware you did?

I agree. It is likely to not be well received. Stick to discussing women’s rights and if the discussion then follows to how a particular impact is affecting women’s rights then it is natural to discuss it.

Once they see that you are actually more interested in supporting women’s and girl’s rights it gets less fraught. And by their rights, that includes the need to ensure trans health options for females are fully evidenced and focuses on female’s needs.

I recommend listening to the You Are Not So Smart podcast. It covers a lot of this sort of social psychology.

You can’t change someone’s perspective for them. What you can do is listen a lot and ask questions. Eventually the right questions will get them thinking, but it takes skill to not be judgemental during these conversations.

I wouldn't either. You need to talk to kids about this stuff before their peers do. Now you will likely be seen as judgemental and out of touch.
Keep talking about women's rights - good that she's interested in that.
I would always say ask questions rather than tell. Get her to explain to you why she thinks certain things.
But I wouldn't tolerate the name calling either. Tolerance goes both ways or not at all. She wants you to respect her but she has to learn that she also has to be respectful of difference of opinion.

I wouldn't, gift of eternal knowledge kicks in around that age. But I would be telling her if she slags me off over a phone privilege provided by me she would be losing the thing.