New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils

Plus, as we have seen umpteen times, if these boys identify as girls, the issue of changing rooms is going to come up.

Just say no!

What's in it for the girls???

Mermaids statement:

We are disappointed to read this review, which rather than focussing on bettering its existing guidance for trans people in sport, yet again ignores the lived experiences of trans people, and misinterprets the Equality Act and academic literature.

This report will have ramifications for trans people in the sporting community, and only seeks to cause unnecessary hostility, exclusion and confusion for those wishing to participate in sport.

It is important to remember that the SCEG report only exists as guidance: it is not mandatory. Sports groups and organisations are entitled and encouraged to write and implement their own policies on including trans and non-binary people in sport.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/mermaids-reaction-to-the-sports-council-equality-group-review/

No. Just no.

I honestly don't understand the reasoning behind viewing elite sport as different to amateur and school sport.

Isn't it exactly the same, but people just aren't as good?

And isn't amateur and school sport the place where elite sports people start?

Maybe before puberty, there might be a point. Although I have heard that even prepubescent children can be distinguished from one another in terms of strength based on sex.

But after that, I really don't get it. It's just as unfair to include males in female sports at school as it is at the Olympics.

Unless I'm missing something (always a possibility!)

Hang on @randomsabreuse
If people aren't being stupidly competitive about grassroots sport it should not be an issue - mixed doubles exists after all.
If a person wants to be super competitive, play on the "open/men's" team, if they can't play sensibly with the women's team then they get dropped and encouraged to play at their own level.
What do you mean? People can be very competitive at grassroots sport! And whether they are super talented or not, and especially younger people/teens. I’ve always been competitive but my tennis skill level limited me to grade 4 comp. everyone is still extremely competitive down to grade 10 or whatever it went down to, and ditto hockey and other sports I played.
As an adult I played hack level community sport, and that was more going for a friendly game type, but don’t assume grassroots means everyone is in it for fun not in it to win it.

What the girls do in stuff like mixed coaching is that they just leave they don’t make a fuss. Just go away

THIS.

DD's football coach thought it would be 'fun' to make them play the boys team at the end of training once. The girls very quickly just gave up, didn't even try to tackle the boys as they were scared of getting hurt and in the end, just stopped even chasing after the ball. It was 20-0 to the boys and only lasted 15 mins. What do you think would happen if they made them train with the boys every week? There wouldn't be any girls left as they'd just stop coming.

I was comfortably beating the other women in my local clubs so trained against men who were sensible enough to make the matches tactically useful for both ofus

But that's not fair on the boys.having to hold back possibly stopping their own progression in order not to hurt their female team mate.

Also highlights the gap in funding and investment in coaching when girls do not have the same option to be really pushed and have the same level of coaching as the boys do.

This from PizzaCrust:

We don't need wishy-washy advice. We need it outlined and made entirely unambigious. If you are trans and want to play in a sport where men already can't compete directly against women, I'm sorry but you'll just have to find another sport or compete against other transwomen.

Yes.

I really don't understand why this is so difficult for people to understand. It isn't being transphobic, it's speaking an uncomfortable truth. And as much as people want and beg for life to be fair, life is never going to be fair. If it was, we wouldn't have millions of people living in poverty across the world.

This applies to the trans issue across the board: And as much as people want and beg for life to be fair, life is never going to be fair and it's high time the trans lobby learnt this. No-one ever said or promised that life would be fair, we do what we can to reduce the unfairness but life will never be completely fair and it's high time the trans lobby grew up and accepted this.

There is no fun competing at a level too low for you.

Unless it provides validation for your assertion that you’re a woman.

Yeah I know datun. We all know. They all know

Fucking obvious

That pesky biology

Perhaps mixed team events should become more of a thing in grassroots sports where there are no pressing safety concerns. This might well add competitive opportunities for women in sports where there are fewer women - might easier to field a mixed than a women's team!

Here's a good speech at WPUK from Victoria Hood, cyclist, talking about her experiences competing in mixed events, and trying to set up female events.

One particular problem she talks about there is that elite women end up competing against total novice men, which is particularly dangerous.

Perhaps mixed team events should become more of a thing in grassroots sports where there are no pressing safety concerns. This might well add competitive opportunities for women in sports where there are fewer women - might easier to field a mixed than a women's team!

Here's a good speech at WPUK from Victoria Hood, cyclist, talking about her experiences competing in mixed events, and trying to set up female events.

One particular problem she talks about there is that elite women end up competing against total novice men, which is particularly dangerous.

Quadzilla

What the girls do in stuff like mixed coaching is that they just leave they don’t make a fuss. Just go away

There is a reason why Judy Murray has girls only inititaves

Tennis is for sure a contact sport. Just cos we don’t scrap with each other doesn’t mean we don’t get hit by a ball travelling at high speed in the face or chest

The new transgender guidelines are the result of an 18-month review that involved speaking to more than 300 people and 175 organisations, including current and former athletes, transgender people and LGBT+ and women’s groups. It also examined all the latest scientific research, making it the most comprehensive ever report into this hotly disputed area.

Honestly, talk about reinventing the bloody wheel. Like others, I'm so pissed off that there has been this level of work and money involved in stating the bleeding obvious.

And we all know why - the conclusion has to be irontight, watertight and airtight so TRAs can't screwdriver it open and shit all over it.

“No one was able to offer a single solution which would resolve all the identified issues, or that would satisfy all stakeholders,” the review states

Again, you can hear my dur from space.

Spend hundreds of thousands of pounds, and what is it, two years, or five minutes on FWR. And I'm not even joking. These spineless twits have to learn to say no. Because it's not fair. Not because they've finally proven men are stronger than women!

And it's not 'inclusion'. It's unfair and exclusion.

I feel strongly that fairness at grass roots level is just as important as it is at elite level.
Sport England launched the This Girl Can campaign precisely because they acknowledged that girls where underrepresented in sport. There are loads of reasons why girls are less likely to play sport and none of them apply to teenage boys. If you make grassroots female sports mixed sex, you're just chucking in another barrier to participation for biological girls.

So, this is a clearly written report, providing concise definitions, acknowledging the issues and suggesting potential options?

Compare and contrast with the panicked waffling, pained squirming, bodged stats and scientific illiteracy various elected representatives have provided over the past few days.

Good to know there are still a few grown-ups left in charge of things.

Definitely matters in tennis! As it involves strength and speed!

There is no fun competing at a level too low for you.

Any male that is determined to compete in female sport is doing this. It's not about being fun. It's about validation and/or winning.

Strength does matter in tennis though. I play my husband a lot and yes hitting back and forth is ok but I can’t return his serve but he always returns mine. And in mixed doubles you have one male one female. If you allowed trans women to compete as the female then that double would have a massive advantage. You could maybe have trans woman and female on same side though. That could work and would be inclusive as well as fair?

I guess in fencing you wear protective clothing. We don’t when we play tennis
Loads of us get injuries from contact with a ball
No nothing about fencing so can’t comment

But know about tennis and what you are suggesting would be the end of women’s and girls leagues at club level

Even teen boys are stronger than me and can. Hit harder

Must be that pesky biology