New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils

When I run parkrun, I want to be the fastest female/woman in my age category. I don't want it to be mixed-sex, as it won't be the truth. That's why we split it in the first place!

My DH ran parkrun at the weekend for the first time in two years and came first, that simply isn't a target for 99%+ of female runners. He even walked three times! Pesky man with pesky longer legs and pesky male physiology that's just all round faster/stronger.

ignores the lived experiences of trans people

If I'm not mistaken, the lived experiences of OMAB trans people includes male puberty. This report certainly does not ignore that lived experience.

Yet he easily outruns her, out-wrestles her and out-cycles her.

Physical contests should not be mixed sex.

Like I said, small sport without the numbers for training just with your own category, we've worked out a way to make training (and non ranking competitions) work which would be fully trans inclusive...

As long as the TW agreed to fence like a man and make the changes that a man would make when fencing with a woman.

Quietly pleased with the guidance but mainly because it is exactly the kind of balanced discourse we’ve been crying out for for the past few years, it’s clearly considered the evidence on all sides and come to fair conclusions that are inclusive without putting anyone at risk. Now can we do the same with every other facet of this “debate”!

So fencing is a contact sport (hitting each other with metal swords) and has some instances of actual physical contact that actual physical strength matters a lot.

Deliberate hard hitting isn't allowed (plus tactically ineffective) but collision due to errors is an issue.

As for male clubmates changing tactics against me/less experienced fencers/younger fencers it's pretty standard as there's no point repeating an easy "win" point when you can work on something else that you're not ready to execute against a faster/taller opponent, because the "easy" option (that you can do already) would not necessarily be available against a person of equal height/power.

Like I said, small sport without the numbers for training just with your own category, we've worked out a way to make training (and non ranking competitions) work which would be fully trans inclusive...

This is interesting - I am involved in a sport that has been mentioned above as not being great for women. I am due to go to a women’s event soon. When I booked on it said something along the lines of “for those who identify as women or non binary”. I have just logged onto it to try and get the exact wording and it has changed! It now says “WOMEN and GIRLS only”.

I wasn’t expecting that but it makes me feel slightly positive for the future….

I used to coach rowing. Take a girls’ J16 quad scull. Remove a trained, reasonably competent, fit girl and replace with a trained, reasonably competent, fit boy of the same age. Result: boat goes faster. Every time. Even if said boy is physically smaller and lighter than said girl.

This in spades - anyone with half a brain cell,, going back in time, for all history, knows that men are normally stronger and bigger built than women

Imagine all the money being used to provide sports clubs with spare kit, San Pro, maybe an actual professional coach for girls to keep girls in sports instead. Wouldn't that have been lovely.

I wonder if the wokiest, wokers ever woked Scottish Parliament will go along with this for Scottish Sport.
Goodness knows.

Plus what they are demanding is completely unfair on others and that's before you get into the destruction of the safety of other participants.

Well, steady on, we can try to make it as fair as possible.

That's what I said, Necessary we do all we can to reduce the unfairness.

But certain people need to recognise that "being fair" is not a synonym for "everyone getting what they want".

Exactly.

Hooo bloody Ray!! I mean it is ridiculous that so much time and money has been spent confirming the bleedin fucking obvious but still

This in spades - anyone with half a brain cell,, going back in time, for all history, knows that men are normally stronger and bigger built than women.

It is important to remember that the SCEG report only exists as guidance: it is not mandatory. Sports groups and organisations are entitled and encouraged to write and implement their own policies on including trans and non-binary people in sport.

Red flags flying all over this statement. I basically read this as "We are going to bully and Lobby the shit out of sporting groups and organisations until they capitulate to our mad demands".

This applies to the trans issue across the board: And as much as people want and beg for life to be fair, life is never going to be fair and it's high time the trans lobby learnt this. No-one ever said or promised that life would be fair, we do what we can to reduce the unfairness but life will never be completely fair and it's high time the trans lobby grew up and accepted this.

Well, steady on, we can try to make it as fair as possible.

But certain people need to recognise that "being fair" is not a synonym for "everyone getting what they want".

We can't all be teenagers yelling "that's not fair!!!!" at our parents when told we can't do something.

ignores the lived experiences of trans people

What does this actually mean?

Is it a euphemism for "they can't have what they want"?

Is saying over-16s can't compete in under-16 sports "ignoring the lived experiences of over-16s"?

In the UK right now, trans people are not currently able to freely participate in sport.
Bullshit.
Trans people are able to freely participate in sport in line with their sex. Same as everyone else.

Equality, fairness and inclusiviy all at the same time! Astonishing no?

Finally a bit of common sense.

[quote ItsAllGoingToBeFine]Mermaids statement:

We are disappointed to read this review, which rather than focussing on bettering its existing guidance for trans people in sport, yet again ignores the lived experiences of trans people, and misinterprets the Equality Act and academic literature.

This report will have ramifications for trans people in the sporting community, and only seeks to cause unnecessary hostility, exclusion and confusion for those wishing to participate in sport.

It is important to remember that the SCEG report only exists as guidance: it is not mandatory. Sports groups and organisations are entitled and encouraged to write and implement their own policies on including trans and non-binary people in sport.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/mermaids-reaction-to-the-sports-council-equality-group-review/[/quote]
Is there anyone left who does not put this sort of upsidedown word salad through a translation machine?

This is about males in female sports.

All the euphemisms in the world don't change that.

Trans ppl can play in the sport of their biological sex

Yes there is no doubt work to be done around how trans ppl are included and treated within sport but that doesn’t negate that they still need to compete in their biological sex category

Surely the way you get to be elite is via school sports in the first place. You are not born an elite sportswoman. So if potential elite girls are put off by mixed sports at school level then that is a future problem for elite sports. Say if Jessica Ennis gave up at 13 as she was made to compete against males as she was never able to compete fairly.

Good god what's wrong with mermaids.

No one is excluded they can train with their fellow males/females.

If their bones are too fragile or their binders stop them.breathing properly so they can't play that's on you mermaids not the sports coaches

Leap Sports statement excerpts:

In the UK right now, trans people are not currently able to freely participate in sport. Taking part in sport for many trans people already involves interpreting and adhering to sometimes onerous regulations before being able to play. As a result, participation rates in sport and physical activity for trans people are poor. Research from 2019 (Outsport) shows that 54% of trans people feel excluded from particular sports or have at some point stopped participating in a particular sport as a result of discrimination around their gender identity, whilst 47% of trans women who are active in sport reported at least one negative personal experience in their sport as a result of discrimination and transphobia in the preceding 12 months.

We also believe the new guidance presents a false dichotomy of inclusion and fairness and faces NGBs and SGBs with a choice between the two. Our organisations have worked in direct partnership with governing bodies in sport for many years nationally and internationally, supporting the development of inclusive and equitable sport for trans and non-binary people. We will continue to do so in the face of this regressive step.