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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils

312 replies

Highwind · 29/09/2021 23:01

Reported by the Guardian....

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/new-guidelines-for-transgender-participation-unveiled-by-uk-sports-councils

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6
sashagabadon · 30/09/2021 08:51

I think it is a good report. I think most sports organisations will decide to protect the female category or have very good reasons why they prioritise inclusion over safety and fairness or new forms of the sport in a non contact way ( although that might improve safety it doesn’t improve fairness)

merrymouse · 30/09/2021 08:51

I think this is good.

It demonstrates that it is possible to acknowledge the reality of sex and competing rights. It creates some of the framework for the debate that Keir Starmer waffles about but refuses to have.

Other organisations should take note.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 30/09/2021 08:49

I was pleased to read this last night, and yes kudos to Sean Ingle who I think has consistently dealt with this topic very well.
I'm feeling positive a way forward can be found, and am happy that there is also recognition of the value of sport & activity for everyone's health & well-being, and that mixed sex sports can be a great thing, if done properly! I've been part of mixed sex teams in touch rugby and rowing and it's a great experience.

I might even consider starting up my ladies-only cycling sessions I used to lead, IF British Cycling change their minds & permit me to run them on a sex based basis.

timeisnotaline · 30/09/2021 08:49

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Why does a former elite sportsman think they're the go to person to consult oabout non-elie women's sport's guidance? And why should subjective, personal opinion be elevated over measurable facts?
Well, this. You were a male athlete Pippa. Relevant studies would be on trans athletes. Not you.
LizzieSiddal · 30/09/2021 08:45

I heard this on R4 headlines at 8am.

Listening to the report which basically said trans women retained advantages and was this was unfair on women, I was imagining a National chorus of “No Shit Sherlock”.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/09/2021 08:45

Why does a former elite sportsman think they're the go to person to consult oabout non-elie women's sport's guidance? And why should subjective, personal opinion be elevated over measurable facts?

Seainasive · 30/09/2021 08:37

But Pippa transitioned after her cycling career ended, when performance had already dropped!

OperationDessertStorm · 30/09/2021 08:24

@Ekofisk

I do wonder to what extent it will open up litigation, in a good way - a woman injured playing against a biological man has a clear case that her club chose inclusive over safety for women and put her at risk.

The risk assessments are going to be interesting.

Yep. It’s not just ‘women’, it’s pregnant women, breastfeeding women, prepubescent women, women who are ttc, post menopausal women with less bone density, blind women etc.

Why on earth should it be immoral for women to have sports without males?

MagpiePi · 30/09/2021 08:08

@CatsOperatingInGangs

Hmm
Me me me me me! It should all be about me!
CatsOperatingInGangs · 30/09/2021 07:57
Hmm
New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils
Igmum · 30/09/2021 07:54

Brilliant news - but is the final point about international competition a nudge to let TW in? (Because other rules are different and we will need to pick them for international squads?). Genuine question

Ekofisk · 30/09/2021 07:53

Sean Ingle has Tweeted about his Grauniad article. MN’s favourite cycling parent has already complained that “the interviews were transphobic” and that Sean “won’t get the real story behind the story”.

Whatwouldscullydo · 30/09/2021 07:51

Are we supposed to be pleased that they finally figured it out?

Why are they passing the buck? Even knowing what they know they still don't want to categorically say no. That will not be easy fir small locally run sports groups relying in.parental involvement and fundraising who can't afford to see their names in the local rags with some daily mail sadface routine.

CatsOperatingInGangs · 30/09/2021 07:20

@Maskless

I genuinely cannot understand why they don't compete in the male category but under their new female names, female clothes, etc.

We'd soon get used to seeing the odd female name in the list of males.

The odd one does post transition but it’s not coincidental that you don’t hear about it. In the cases I’m aware of there’s no shouting about how inclusive they are from the athlete, the sport governing body nor Mermaids sport inclusion officer. I wonder why?
OvaHere · 30/09/2021 07:14

I suppose what remains to be seen is if this guidance has any teeth. I mean the Equality Act allows for single sex provision. Yet....

BettyFilous · 30/09/2021 07:09

Just reported (poorly) in R4 Today’s 7am headlines. Waiting for the Twitter storm to start in 3. 2. 1…..

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/09/2021 06:56

Hooo bloody Ray!! I mean it is ridiculous that so much time and money has been spent confirming the bleedin fucking obvious but still

I believe when this was discussed before that gendered intelligence were commissioned to do the review. If that is the case (and I note that coverage so far doesn’t say who conducted the independent review) then it’ll be interesting to see how the TRA spin it Abd of course I look forward to stonewalls no doubt nuanced and thoughtful response too Wink

OvaHere · 30/09/2021 06:55

@Thatsjustwhatithink

One has to wonder at the suggestion that one 'possibility' is to hold a 'female only' category.

It's literally the fucking definition of women's sports.

Yes. The inability to just say no to men who demand unreasonable things of women is quite stark.
Thatsjustwhatithink · 30/09/2021 06:53

One has to wonder at the suggestion that one 'possibility' is to hold a 'female only' category.

It's literally the fucking definition of women's sports.

NitroNine · 30/09/2021 06:42

What NiceGerbil said about Twitter got me thinking, so I went to check.

I found this Tweet from a radio station for trans people:
uksport SportEngland hmmmm this report…are you going to provide a list of the people you have used for your research? Is filling in a form with leading questions research? Smell a big rat here….

Thing is* the tweet being replied to has been deleted. News of the report’s publication has vanished from the feeds of the bodies that published it. The Guardian haven’t tweeted about it. There’s nothing from Mermaids et al: can only assume sounds of fury will start when someone runs to Twitter after creeping about here to check on the wickedly unpoliced thoughts that women (& sometimes men!) keep expressing here however often they’re woke-scolded & told to educate themselves & Just. Be. Kind.

  • The willingness to announce the way they & those they know/Their Side conduct “research” is quite astonishing. Not so much “saying the quiet parts out loud” as bellowing them into a bullhorn.
ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 30/09/2021 06:40

And an autocorrect: implications not motivations. I really should have previewed!

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 30/09/2021 06:39

Typo…IF my DD were involved…

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 30/09/2021 06:38

Good to see some common sense, finally. As well as decent reporting from Sean, again - he has consistently been fair/balanced on this.

Yes it’s clear they can have inclusion OR safety - and I do hope insurance becomes a factor sooner. I my DD were involved in local clubs, I would certainly be making that point to them: “so, you’ve chosen inclusion over safety. Have you discussed the motivations of that with your insurers? Do you have a statement on liability in the event of an injury?” Etc.

Ekofisk · 30/09/2021 06:27

I do wonder to what extent it will open up litigation, in a good way - a woman injured playing against a biological man has a clear case that her club chose inclusive over safety for women and put her at risk.

The risk assessments are going to be interesting.