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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

492 replies

Cwenthryth · 27/09/2021 23:07

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 28/10/2021 09:50

Damn, I stopped clapping. Sorry. Got distracted, fell asleep. Has anyone disappeared?

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 09:35

I am partial to Wine…. Heads over to wherever the blue stocking is hanging.

BatmansBat · 28/10/2021 09:33

I don’t even like Prosecco Sad.

Gin on the other hand…or red wine

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 28/10/2021 09:19

I honestly thought the thread would be gone this morning

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 28/10/2021 09:18

There was whining going on but it wasn’t coming from helleofabore

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 09:14

@Wildfart

I'm flattered but I assure you I'm definitely not a barrister or solicitor or anything to do with the legal profession.

Don't be flattered, it was a mistaken identity and you seem to have missed how bad I thought you were.

Grin

I love the vipers of FWR.

AlfonsoTheUnrepetant · 28/10/2021 09:11

Robin's comment about "fat fingers" is a typical TRA of stealing someone's narrative: remember when JK Rowling's GC tweet was blamed on "fat fingers".

Poor TRAs with their inability to develop their own excuses, rationales, scenarios etc and their coopting of something someone else has already done.

merrymouse · 28/10/2021 09:10

Just as an aside, she is also confused about human rights.

There is an absolute right not to be tortured. There is no right to have an identity officially recognised. There is only a qualified right to privacy which is the basis of the GRA. The GRA doesn’t cover people who don’t have a GRC.

AlfonsoTheUnrepetant · 28/10/2021 09:08

I make typos because I (1) am dyslexic and (2) don't always check my posts in Preview.

Datun · 28/10/2021 09:07

Oh for heaven's sake. The prison service themselves said that men were pretending to be women in order to get an easier ride in a women's prison, or access more victims.

And of course men aren't women, at all. I wouldn't use the word pretending as it indicates a certain nefarious intent. But saying they are women doesn't alter the fact that they're not.

And yes, I'm sure robin doesn't realise that they are just the latest in a long, long line of posters who all go through exactly the same predictable pattern.

Fondly imagining that they can just tell the women they're wrong, and that will be that. Perhaps Robin is used to doing that in real life. But when it doesn't work, the aggression starts. I've been gentle with you up till now? What the fuck is that? Consequences? Your posts are criminal?

Robin might want to reflect on the fact that it's Robin who can't keep within the guidelines.

Honestly. No wonder Robin comes on here to try and shut women down with Fat Fingers Theory.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/10/2021 09:04

Fat fingers are what I have. Why my posts are littered with literals and mispers.

I have fat, arthritic fingers and don't always proof read as well as I could.

At work, where I type a lot, I double and triple check. That's called being professional!

Stats aren't messed up like that by 'fat fingers' -as others have explained upthread. It's just insulting to even try and suggest that as a reaosnable explanation. But then again, as insults go,... it's all par for the TRA course!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/10/2021 08:59

@ErrolTheDragon

you know you're called Prosecco Stormfront, right? That's your nickname

Ah... the one coined by the 'Cis' woman who spectacularly unsuccessfully took a transwoman to court for alleged transphobia?

And the one who got upset over rapists having their sex accurately recorded.

Looks like she doesn't think it was a fat fingers clerical error.

More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!
More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/10/2021 08:58

Ah yes! Helen, Mimmymum. The gift that keeps on giving.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/10/2021 08:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 08:34

But seriously, just in case anyone missed this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4386315-WPUK-A-Woman-s-Place-is-NOT-in-prison

I am keen to see the videos from last night.

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 08:33

Just leaving this here because it is quite relevant and from Cwenthryth other thread on women in prison.

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1453440985019654147?s=20

This vibe seems to resonate with posts on this thread. Along with

REPENT MOTHERFUCKER!!!!

as mentioned upthread.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/10/2021 08:17

Ooh! So much happened so late at night!!

But if I can help the now flounced, if you are still monitoring reading Rob this is were you made your mistake

its posting about how trans women are only pretending to be women so they can rape men .

In hindsight you obviously meant women, but that's not what you said.

And what many of us said in response, with links to the court cases of specific men who had done so, was that some rapists were doing exactly that. Choosing to transition after arrest and/or sentencing. That's men and the MoJ have some stats to show this is true and have even made a policy statement on the matter - which was being contested in law at the time.

If you don't think that it is an incredible and unbelievable state of affairs, that men convicted of sex crimes can say they are transitioning and be sent to the female state then you are more hard of head than I could have imagined.

And we don't regard transwomen as men, they are men. Male in every single cell of their bodies, retaining most of the male socialisation they have experienced in their lives, committing the same kinds of illegal acts in the same manner and at the same rate as every other man.

The difference is that we don't thik they are transwomen, we think they are rapists. You seem to simultaneously need them to be transwmen, accepted as women, and for them not to exist. And we see that a lot in those who need to shout that transwomen are actually women.

And you did post a threat - a daft one, but your language, the phrases you chose were aggressive and promising of real life violence - say that in real life and see what happens - if you cannot see the implicit threat in that then you sit comfortably alongside the sword wielding, death threatening TRAs of Twatter. As has been said, we only have ypur words to kow you by. And your words are implacable, rude and threatening!

And, just so you know, there is a part of Mumsnet called Flouncers Corner - many use it to announce their departure Smile

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 08:08

So... I have gone away and David Duke doesn't seem to be the long lost brother of Daisy Duke or Beau and Luke Duke, said in a Rosco P Coltrane voice. (Note: NOT Peacoal Train as I thought growing up in a coal mining area)

This is what wikipedia told me

David Ernest Duke (born July 1, 1950) is an American neo-Nazi, antisemitic conspiracy theorist, far-right politician, convicted felon, and former grand wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Wowsers robin, that is quite the POW moment.... hums the theme tune to Batman from the 60s.

XiXimXerJinping · 28/10/2021 07:52

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BatmansBat · 28/10/2021 07:48

I woke up, read the thread and it seems we are threatened that we will be societal outcasts for suggesting that men may pretend to be transwomen.

I absolutely think it is possible that some men may pretend to be transwomen. Predators will pretend anything, some even become priests to access children. If the only thing they need to do is to put on a skirt, why wouldn’t they?

Robin, if you are still here, let’s start easy.

Should a rapist who decides to transition (as in just saying “I am a woman”) during the trial be put in women’s prison?

What about the person in a skirt who sodomised that poor girl in Laudoun and then went on to sexually assault (rape?) another underaged girl? Should they have been allowed in the girls toilets just because they were wearing a skirt? Should they go to a women’s jail?

I am very open to discuss this. I think it appears to be a risk to women and girls from people with penises. I also think that it suddenly seems to be many sex crimes committed by people stating that they are trans and I don’t think all of them are.

Do you think all sex criminals who say that they are trans, really are trans Robin?

Sophoclesthefox · 28/10/2021 07:47

@robinr66

I just don’t think that they can compel me to share their take on their identity, agree that their interpretation of the world is the only possible correct one, or support the belief that gender identity ought to supplant sex in how we organise civil life in this country

But that is exactly what you're doing. They aren't trying to define you, they are trying to define themselves in a way they feel comfortable with.

But you are defining them in a way that you feel comfortable with. You're insisting that your beliefs matter more. And you're doing so proudly, openly saying that what they want and what they feel doesn't matter to you. Someone else must define themselves according to your criteria and what makes you comfortable.

The fact that you can't see how insane that is makes me want to bang my head on a table.

Well, what a lot there was added to the thread overnight that I have tried to digest with my smoothie this morning!

I’m addressing this one as it quotes something I typed.

It’s part of a long list of things you haven’t grasped, robin, but I’ll explain further so you don’t have to bang your head off a desk.

I am not “defining” trans people in any way. I leave that to them to do as they see fit, as I do with anyone else’s beliefs about themself. It is not for me to say how people should think of themselves.

My only concern is where those beliefs make their way into public life so that they start having an impact on me that I take notice. If we change the definition of “woman” from the accepted “adult human female” to “anyone with the gender identity of woman”, then it’s not an abstract concept with no impact. I don’t have a gender identity, so I no longer have a category. I’m not someone with a gender identity of woman, I’m an adult human female with no gender identity.

The rights and protections that women have in law are related to our biology- the particular needs that female bodies have, the particular restrictions that female bodies are subject to. Males don’t have these. If you can’t describe the category of people who need these rights, then noone will get to have them.

You can’t run a society like that, pretending that the internal feelings of a minority of people trump material reality. It has to be treated like a religious belief- you are free to believe it, free to live according to its precepts, but society has to be secular because everyone doesn’t share your belief.

I’m assuming that if anyone can be bothered to report your abusive, demeaning posts, they’ll get deleted. I haven’t- I’d rather people saw them.

And I do discuss this in real life. Get off the Internet, my friend- yours is not the mainstream opinion.

Cailleach1 · 28/10/2021 07:42

The poster may not know who mimmy etc. is. I think a lot of the strawmen references were specific to America.

Could be American or American identifying. Or simply saturated in US specific worldview.

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 07:11

Oh no!

Is it embarrassing to keep having not pointed out that you are mixing up the posters you are denigrating?

Well that typo was embarrassing to me! Apologies.

Is it embarrassing to keep having it pointed out that you are mixing up the posters you are denigrating?

Zebradanio · 28/10/2021 07:08

My point is to make clear to any unlucky person who stumbles across this thread that your views are repellent and are not shared nor are they acceptable.

So you think the truth is repellent, that belief in the truth is not shared by most, and it is unacceptable to speak the truth.

Confused
Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 06:58

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