More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

Has anyone ever seriously floated the idea for a Gender Barrier Swap Shop? I reckon these boards are the perfect place. I have three in purple, one that does have a bit of foxing to the gusset and several useful for parts only.

I mean, I can see why for some people the 2014 model of the Sigma Gender Barrier caused problems. Some might even say that it was outdated, and depreciating as soon as it came out of the box. But you have to admit that in time trials, it certainly gave the old Bunbury 320 a run for her money! And held up well in the Smoke Test, the Reverse Acute Angle test, and cornered well.

To be fair, we haven't had a good old fashioned TWAWer here for a while.

Makes me all nostalgic.

I think you're a transphobe for the same reason that I think people in the 60s were racist when they expressed concerns that the end of segregation would lead to a rise in sexual offences against women.

Whereas I think it is racist to suggest that there is any comparison between racial differences (superficial, cosmetic, social construct) and sex differences (completely different physical organs).

But Robin...

If you get rid of all sex segregation, leaving aside the issue of all the harm this is likely to cause to the 51% of the population that is considerably more likely to be harmed by the other 49% than vice versa..

...then you can't actually admit TW to female spaces. Whether you believe that TWAW becomes irrelevant. You've just destroyed the concept of single sex spaces in the first place. They no longer exist, so no one gets to use them.

Seems to me that that wouldn't be terribly popular with women OR TW.

Trans womenarewomen
In what way exactly? What characteristic is it that transwomen have in common with "other" women but which distinguishes them from men?

this is not a personal attack but an explanation of why I said I thought this poster was a transphobe and prejudiced. I'm trying to explain what I meant, not denigrate

and then goes on to an very personal attack...

hmmm!

Hey, I care about gender barriers! I have one in the boot of my car, underneath two bags that need to go to the charity shop. It's probably in need of a good boilwash and air drying, but it does come in handy occasionally, even if more for nostalgia than any genuine practical need.

Trans women are women

Is Rachel Dolezal black? Is Oli London Korean? Is Emile Ratelband 20 years younger than his birth certificate states?

Trans women are women. Allowing a trans woman to use a female toilet isn't allowing a man to use it - it's allowing a woman to use it.

@robinr66 - Transwomen are not women.

Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if gender barriers were removed entirely
No one here cares about "gender barriers". We do however think that sex-based barriers are important for protecting the vulnerable.

Transwomen are male, robin. HTH.

Yes, it's not something anyone needs to mask robin, but bless you for thinking anyone would be trying to hide the fact that males are not females.

I can never understand why the racist argument is brought into this.

Because of the parallel. Prejudice follows the same patterns. Always has. And it's useful to take someone's position on one controversial issue and extrapolate that to another that is much more black and white - tends to focus the mind when people realise that their arguments against transgender rights are exactly the same arguments that racists make against racial equality...

Sometimes segregation IS important, to right historic inequalities or protect the vulnerable for instance.

Interesting point. I'm struggling to think of a legit example where that could be justified as a long term policy position to maintain segregation though.

A parallel analogy would need to be when the segregation is of benefit to the more vulnerable class. Women are not the whites in a racial analogy. A parallel analogy would be closer to white people identifying as black in order to claim a scholarship only open to people of colour.

The point you're making here is about pretence though. You're talking about white people pretending to be black to get a benefit (although Chris Rock does an excellent routine on why this doesn't happen).

So are you saying that transgender women are pretending to be women?

You think my mask has slipped? I’m not wearing one!

Some men claim they are women, but they aren’t. It’s very straightforward as we don’t have the medical know how or expertise to change anyone’s sex.

I realise that those men are desperately trying to change the meaning of the word “woman” so it includes them, but ultimately everyone knows that men are not women, even those who deny it.

The racist argument is another attempt to equate women fighting to retain their rights to hateful groups in history, jellyfrizz. There’s nothing more complicated than that involved.

I mean, 'transwomen are women' is just nonsense. It's semantics, you understand? It's made up.

Transwomen are born male, that is the actual meaning of the word.

You can't change sex. It's not possible to change sex.

None of this is rocket science. I just find it absolutely mind blowing that anyone has been taken in by such vacuous nonsense for a nano second. Government! Scientists, FGS! O tempora, o mores, etc.

Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if gender barriers were removed entirely but I think your mask has slipped a little here:

What is that AnyOld Prion is masking in your opinion?

In your opinion, transitioned males are women, but that is not everyone's opinion and you cannot police people's opinion to suit your own belief.

Allowing a trans woman to use a female toilet isn't allowing a man to use it - it's allowing a woman to use it.

It is allowing a male to use it. And in fact, women can state that they find male's in female single sex spaces to be distressing without it being categorised as transphobia. You might not like this, but it is the truth and even the EHRC has stated that women can discuss and highlight areas where conflicts in rights of both groups arise.

There is a reason male's are segregated from female single sex spaces and partly it is reflected in crime statistics. Crime statistics that if they start to be entangled by inclusion of males in female statistics will lead to many inaccuracies and false policy changes. And will be impossible to disentangle.

I get it. It is infuriating that women disagree with you.

Well now Arabella we can’t have men being sad now can we

And trans women are not women, they were born male otherwise what are they transitioning from?

Trans women are women.

How are they? What does a transwoman share with a woman?

Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if gender barriers were removed entirely but I think your mask has slipped a little here:

There we go, then. You think that there should be no circumstances in which women should be allowed to say 'no, thank you' to males. Clear.

The proportion of rape allegations to convictions has fallen during the same period.

Also, the way that rape convictions were counted changed in 2016. The data itself explicitly highlights that you cannot compare years and cannot draw any conclusions about trends.

Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if gender barriers were removed entirely but I think your mask has slipped a little here:

Gender barriers yes however do you believe that sex segregation should be abolished?

Trans womenarewomen. Allowing a trans woman to use a female toilet isn't allowing a man to use it - it's allowing a woman to use it.

That is your belief and not one that must be shared by everyone.
It is allowing a male to use the female toilet is it not?

Lesbians exist

Transpeople exist

Fact

Sometimes segregation IS important, to right historic inequalities or protect the vulnerable for instance.

A parallel analogy would need to be when the segregation is of benefit to the more vulnerable class. Women are not the whites in a racial analogy. A parallel analogy would be closer to white people identifying as black in order to claim a scholarship only open to people of colour.