Sorry if this has been done before, but gender identity and race identity

I am trying to get it clear in my own head how excluding male bodied people from female toilets is different from excluding black men from certain spaces due to the statistically increased risk of violence? Or indeed excluding low income people from certain spaces for the same reason?

The difference is that you can look at socio economic data and plausibly say that external factors like racism and economic disadvantage contribute to disproportionate numbers of black men being imprisoned.

However if you honestly believe that women are as likely to commit violent crime as men, your life must be terrifying given how few of them are convicted. Presumably all these violent women have escaped justice and are roaming the streets.

People have different levels of comfort with unisex facilities, but the issue is also as much about dignity as safety. I don’t think my 80 year old father should have to use a urinal in a unisex space either. If people also want unisex provision I’m not stopping them campaigning for that as well.

hmmm, not so sure of that statistic, OP. Are you in the UK?
The figures I can find are, from the Prison Reform Trust:
26% of the prison population, 22,683 people, are from a minority ethnic group.
Analysis conducted for the Lammy Review found a clear direct association between ethnic group and the odds of receiving a custodial sentence. With black people 53%, Asian 55%, and other ethnic groups 81% more likely to be sent to prison for an indictable offence at the Crown Court, even when factoring in higher not-guilty plea rates.

• so it does look as if they are getting a bit of a raw deal. But I can't find your direct statistic.

But good luck with your project of trying to bring daylight to your friend's thinking. Can you remind her about SAFEGUARDING? That deliberately making the situation worse, with raped women the collateral damage, does not accord with basic safeguarding principles.

Tell her about the Girl Guides, that they had perfectly good safeguarding rules, then they decided that TWAW and that they could take young girls camping... what could possibly go wrong.

Hmmm, perhaps you need to get your pal back to the 'reality' of letting men into women's spaces, OP.

Letting other races in is... ok! No problem. We may sometimes have problems with spoken accents (or even language), or even cultures. But it seems to work out ok.

But letting men in... Did you read the account in the Mail a while back, about men inmates in women's prisons? The everyday harassment, men in the lunch queue touching up the women etc. Even rapes (Karen White). How about the men exposing themselves, for sexual gratification, in changing rooms, has your pal missed the whole WiSpa incident (one of many)?

Not the same as racial mixing.

Today I am a 32 year old 6'3" blonde Danish male architect- just for a change.

You would think that race has the potential to be so much more fluid than sex because people can have multiracial heritage through parents and grandparents etc and be raised in one or other culture that they may feel their personal identity is more or less connected to.

The collective patience for white new age types claiming a distant relative was from one first nation tribe or another always seemed pretty thin though.

The different cultural reaction to the idea of comedians blacking up to perform racist caricatures for laughs versus male comedians dressing up as females to perform sexist stereotypes for laughs... makes me feel that sexism still has a long way to go to be considered as serious as racism, even though white women have white privilege.

As the previous poster and others have said, it really boils down to "Women don't count." "Men do."

But, for what it's worth, this was the answer when I searched high and low for what on earth the pro-transgender + anti-transracialists themselves were thinking.

Race, they say, is a real biological fact. You're born that way. It can't be changed. Whereas sex is all in your mind.

No, I don't know how they explain abortion of female fetuses, femicide, rape, lower pay and promotions, and, and, and, and so on forever.

I've met flat earthers with a bigger inkling of reality since they sometimes let slip words like "globe-spanning" when boasting about the size of their movement.

The argument hinges on the concept of ‘accumulated generational inequality’ as a basis for justifying why a white person shouldn't be able to identify as black, but a man should be able to identify as a woman.

Well it is obvious that women have accumulated generational inequality for magnitudes longer and in a more universal global way than any race based version.

In cases where revising a classification would have a negative sociopolitical impact that outweighs the good of respecting how an individual identifies, we think that the classification should not be revised.

So, here I think they are acknowledging that while women might have accumulated generational inequality, the negative sociopolitical impact of this is worth less than respecting the man that identifies as a woman.

In other words, a small % of today’s men wishing to identify as women outweighs all the thousands of generations of oppressed women. Man important. Women not important. It’s just cleverly argued justification for yet more sexism and sex based oppression.

The whole premise of the author reeks of gender ideology fantasy.

Yup. As pointless to debate with as a creationist.

I can see the appeal of women like me adding a few years and retiring early

But they don't want women to work until pension age. Doesn't it turn out that for every woman who remains in work and works a 30hour+ week it costs the state £5K in the care work that she would otherwise do free of charge?

I'm waiting for transcitizenship.

I'd like my birth certificate reissued with a place of birth in some EU country that offers birthright citizenship, please. Although really any EU country I choose should just issue me a passport no questions asked as I've lived as an EU national for more than six months. Maybe I'll be French today, Swedish tomorrow, Lithuanian on Wednesday... Pips Bunce-style!

Or maybe the entire world could just never check anyone's documents for any reason, just take each person's word for everything.

It'd be libertarian utopia.

I don't see how Rachael Dolezal situation any different to transgenderiam. One is derided as a nutter, the other is lauded as stunning an brave?

I don't get it .

My mother in law was saying she can get a free boiler due to her age? I fancy that!

Trans age has negative implications for the economy, unlike trans sexual identity, which is apparently a big business booster. So I don't think it would receive support and finance by the elite in the same way. Unless (a nasty thought has just occurred to me) that is, to facilitate relationships with younger people🤢

Trans race would be world war 3 in my opinion.

Yes of course, speakout. Just identify as a pensioner, and scream “literal violence” if they refuse you a bus pass. Oh, and demand your state pension too. Why can’t thirty year olds be trans pensioners? It’s no crazier than trans race or trans… anything else.

Will this mean I can apply for a senior bus pass whenever I like?

Trans age already a thing, Google stefonknee

Sorry I mean would you debate someone who believes in God about the existence of God? It's so pointless.

I don't know, would you debate someone who believes in God?

A debate is supposed to be a place of logic, you can't debate emotional concepts. There is no logic in gender identity.

Martina Big - German model

The more I think on it, the less convinced I am there is any coherent argument why identifying as another race is different to identifying as another sex. Didnt IW today offer to show people their cervix today?

I think trans race will prove difficult. I suspect trans age will be the next one, with most people afflicted by this condition identifying as very much younger than their physical appearance might suggest.