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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I did it. I stepped up!

110 replies

RhubarbCrumbled · 27/09/2021 10:40

I'm in a development day meeting online and someone suggested we should all share our pronouns. I declined and THEY ASKED ME WHY! I asked why I should and was sent a link (sorry, I didn't copy it in time) and advised I read up about it.
I said I didn't share in the belief that required pronouns to be shared in the same way as I wouldn't insist on people sharing their religion. As a woman I felt excluded. And others who had already put up their pronouns removed them. The pressure to do it was removed. Im hoping this means people will think through what they're being asked to do in future!

It's a very shallow post, but usually I wouldn't stand up like this.

OP posts:
Gastonia · 27/09/2021 11:59

And others who had already put up their pronouns removed them.
Years ago, I was in a restaurant with my parents, and the food was terrible. My dad complained politely, the manager was quite rude and said "no-one else has complained." Immediately, the people at the next table complained as well, and then other diners. In fact, it turned out the chef was off that day, but everyone else had sat eating the truly awful food without saying anything! It's so difficult to be the first person to stand up, so I'm very impressed.

Chrysanthemum5 · 27/09/2021 11:57

This comes round every 6 months or so in senior management meetings at my work also pops up in cross team meetings. Lots of chat about how it's kind and it doesn't harm anyone. I have my three main reasons why I don't use pronouns ready to go. My actual real reason is pronouns are rohypnol (as shared earlier upthread it's a great read) but work is very woke so I can't take them there yet.

Happy to share
1- it places a barrier in front of people whose first language is not English or whose language doesn't have pronouns. And I prioritise the needs of that large group so don't use pronouns
2 - it places a barrier in front of neurodiverse individuals who are challenged by having to remember things which conflict reality
3 - we work in a sexist environment and research shows women are treated more harshly in environments where there are reminders of biological sex, and I don't think my workplace needs any help from me in being more sexist

ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 11:55

Preference falsification happens because we don't speak up

Fascinating, thanks.

ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 11:54

@Keyboardkaterina

Well done! I think the majority think it’s a load of nonsense but are too afraid to say. The more people stand up and say, no, actually, I don’t believe in the ideology that underpins this and I’m not going to participate, the sooner it will all hopefully go away.

I haven’t been asked to do this yet but I’d I am either in my signature or at a meeting I plan simply to say that I don’t wish to participate.

I wonder if a lot of people would be glad to hear OP's very sound reasons for not wanting to add pronouns, too?
AnyOldPrion · 27/09/2021 11:53

I think it’s great, not shallow at all. The fact that others removed theirs afterwards means you spared a number of women from feeling uncomfortable.

And courage calls to courage! Next time, maybe they’ll speak up for themselves.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 11:52

If we stay silent and unheard we remain the monstrous bogie men the gender ideologists want to portray us as. And everyone thinks everyone else must be on board with the gender stuff.

Preference falsification happens because we don't speak up:

Preference falsification, according to the economist Timur Kuran, is the act of misrepresenting one’s wants under perceived social pressures. It happens frequently in everyday life, such as when we tell the host of a dinner party that we are enjoying the food when we actually find it bland. In Private Truths, Public Lies , Kuran argues convincingly that the phenomenon not only is ubiquitous but has huge social and political consequences. Drawing on diverse intellectual traditions, including those rooted in economics, psychology, sociology, and political science, Kuran provides a unified theory of how preference falsification shapes collective decisions, orients structural change, sustains social stability, distorts human knowledge, and conceals political possibilities.

A common effect of preference falsification is the preservation of widely disliked structures. Another is the conferment of an aura of stability on structures vulnerable to sudden collapse. When the support of a policy, tradition, or regime is largely contrived, a minor event may activate a bandwagon that generates massive yet unanticipated change.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge. So structures held in place by preference falsification may, if the condition lasts long enough, achieve increasingly genuine acceptance. The book demonstrates how human knowledge and social structures co-evolve in complex and imperfectly predictable ways, without any guarantee of social efficiency.

www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580

ArtemesiaK · 27/09/2021 11:50

Brilliant! Well done for standing up and making a change!

deadleaves · 27/09/2021 11:43

Well done. People really do need to start standing up and being counted. Its hard for gender ideologists to maintain the fiction that we are all hate filled phobes when our friends and colleagues know we are GC and know that we are reasonable, respected and likeable people and hear that our views are moderate and well-thought, through.

If we stay silent and unheard we remain the monstrous bogie men the gender ideologists want to portray us as. And everyone thinks everyone else must be on board with the gender stuff.

We really need to speak out now.

GreekTragedy · 27/09/2021 11:40

And others who had already put up their pronouns removed them

Oh my god!! Well done you!!

It's not come to my organisation... yet! But I will be copying your lead!l if it does!

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 11:38

[quote RhubarbCrumbled]@EmbarrassingAdmissions That would be very useful. I was in the middle of it all before I really got my head around what I wanted to say. It was lucky that I was typing rather than in person![/quote]
Good point.

Even better to have a note of something we'd say if challenged and a pre-prepared piece of text if it becomes a 'chat' or email thing?

EyesOpening · 27/09/2021 11:33

Well done for not staying silent, you will have paved the way for others too.

RhubarbCrumbled · 27/09/2021 11:30

@EmbarrassingAdmissions That would be very useful. I was in the middle of it all before I really got my head around what I wanted to say. It was lucky that I was typing rather than in person!

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 11:23

Is it wise for people to have a ready to go answer for when/if the situation arises?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/09/2021 11:20

Well done you! I bet that wasn’t easy Flowers

PhiRhoSigma · 27/09/2021 11:18

Brilliant and well done!
I will be doing likewise if there is a similar attempt to impose this authoritarian, regressive, 'outing' form of compelled speech within my workplace.
(Don't think there will be though, because I know that Head of HR thinks it is bollocks).

ChocolateHazelnut · 27/09/2021 11:14

That made no sense. People who want to insulate homes, conceive, upset about pronouns or petrol, I am done being lectured.

ChocolateHazelnut · 27/09/2021 11:12

You made it easier for others.

We aren't allowed to say women have a cervix and I am watching a thread (whilst I have sympathy for them in this new there as I am at not having a body people want and the new language police who want to carry a new life in their body) ordering is around, telling us what we can and can't say to people who are taking a lifestyle chioice fraught with difficulty.

I am so over being bossed about, not allowed to make my own decisions, I stayed at home over the pandemic, I have had enough. People telling others who can and can't buy petrol and how much, all of it.

Suitcaseseverywhere · 27/09/2021 11:04

I wish I was as brave. Currently ignoring the edict but expect to be pulled up on it soon

Keyboardkaterina · 27/09/2021 11:02

Well done! I think the majority think it’s a load of nonsense but are too afraid to say. The more people stand up and say, no, actually, I don’t believe in the ideology that underpins this and I’m not going to participate, the sooner it will all hopefully go away.

I haven’t been asked to do this yet but I’d I am either in my signature or at a meeting I plan simply to say that I don’t wish to participate.

RhubarbCrumbled · 27/09/2021 11:01

Thank you! My profession's regional and national teams have all added pronouns to their signatures. We're a mainly female, service driven profession which is probably why there are so many who have just gone along with it as it's what we're expected to do.
I've got to the end of my tether with this attitude generally amongst colleagues and feel like it's time to be a bit pushier and lead rather than simply wait to serve.

OP posts:
LemonSwan · 27/09/2021 10:57

Welldone.

It makes absolutely no sense to announce pronouns in a meeting anyway.

You would refer to someone as their name because they are there.

Saying he said/ she said. I agree with her/him is not the done thing.

Bizarre this is even a thing but well done.

ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 10:56

Every time you stand up for women you make it easier for others. Every time a woman says 'no', she helps not only herself but a few other women who can't or don't feel able yet to speak up.

Maya Angelou — 'Each time a woman stands up for herself, without knowing it possibly, without claiming it, she stands up for all women.'

Jaysmith71 · 27/09/2021 10:55

HE HASN'T GOT ANYTHING ON! THE KING IS IN THE ALTOGETHER!

ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 10:55

Rhubarb that wasn't shallow. That matters. Thank you for standing up.

Star
AnneLovesGilbert · 27/09/2021 10:52

Good job. This stuff matters.

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