Starker: Not only women have a cervix

Going to be talking about this on BBC Woman's Hour now - it's Emma Barnett presenting.

He has no clue about the difference between sex and gender.

We are talking a teeny amount of people that were born with a cervix that now identify as men. What percentage?

I’ve honestly had enough of this stupid planet. What’s the answer? Maybe so called “cis” women should stop having babies and leave it up to the men and other people. If other people also have wombs etc then let’s leave reproduction to them.

Also another thing I’ve seen on Twitter is people getting mixed up with “only” and “all”…

Only women have cervix…. That didn’t say “all”

Of course women that have had surgery to remove their cervix are still women.

Starker is a wet lettuce. Does he call his mother a person with a cervix?

Personally I find the word woman offensive, please just call me a cunt instead.

“Accept how people feel, but I will not accept how you feel and I will be actively critical of the right for you to do that” seems to be the order of the day.

I'm calling Labour the humpty dumpty party from now on.

Oh yeah forgot about pip.

Ffs.

There are other forms of wording, e.g. 'women, including transmen' or 'women, irrespective of how they identify'

The first is unambiguous bit likely to be considered unacceptable to reality deniers. The second would be interpreted rationally by most people as 'all females' but as 'women, transwomen and pips Bunce on a Pippa day' by the genderists.

Women, which includes trans men...

That's super inclusive.

I know, this does my head in.

I am. Said so in a stupid twitter argument last night and the tweeter then said, so are trans women 🙄

I see it from a public health perspective where I don't want to see vulnerable children and teen girls missing vital care because they're giving them selves trendy identities and labels.

For those who don't really get all this it's also a way in to discuss the big safeguarding issues.

'women, irrespective of how they identify'

But I’m not identifying!!! I am a women. My sex is a woman. I would never tick a box with that description.

There are other forms of wording, e.g. 'women, including transmen' or 'women, irrespective of how they identify'

Yes I think that's much better Flo.
The semantics are v important.

[quote Porridgealert]@CuriousaboutSamphire. Can you tell me why people write wimin or wimmin instead of women? Too many posters are doing it for it to be a spelling mistake so what point are you making. Thanks.[/quote]
In that post it actually was a misper!

Wimbum, wimmin etc is a sarcastic note re the erasure of the word 'woman' from many places. This erasure is already happening in quite a few areas where products and/or services are for females only, from cervical screening services to sanitary pads.

It is also a reference, in part, to JK Rowlings tweet "There's a word for those people, isn't there? Wimbum, wimmin...". She didn't originate it, but certainly made it all the more well known.

HTH

I don't like the term 'women and transmen'
I totally agree with Edge and I'm surprised and quite alarmed to see it suggested so regularly on here.

If we say 'and' we're saying there are people other than women who have a cervix / get pregnant / menstruate. We're saying that women are a sub-group.

There are other forms of wording, e.g. 'women, including transmen' or 'women, irrespective of how they identify'

Why are people so threatened by inclusivity. It does not affect you at all.

So,what people are called and how they are classified doesn't affect biological women at all, but constitutes literal violence to transpeople? Right-oh.

Labour are tying themselves tighter and tighter in knots with this identity policy crap. I have been a labour supporter for a long time and have no good reason to vote for them now. It's really disappointing.

So, inclusion is important, but so is specificity so as not to reduce people (women mainly) to their constituent parts.

For purposes where distinction has to be made based on sex, how about acknowledging sex exists, it isn't a dirty or insulting concept then saying whom exactly is being referred to. So, for smear testing, 'women and trans men' and for prostate testing, 'men and trans women' or maybe 'pre op transwomen/ men'.

I feel as though the problem is desperately scrabbling for homogeneity whereas actually as long as trans men and trans women are treated with respect and inclusion, protected by law, where is the harm in accepting they didn't start life in their chosen gender and that will cause differences in limited circumstances (medical, prisons, sports etc). Leaps and bounds have been made in acceptance over the past few years, so why not head for true acceptance rather than erasure of the facts which is the way things are going.

Sex and gender are not the same thing.

You're dead right about that. Sex is a biological fact. 'Gender' is a bunch of sex-based stereotypes which society had slowly started to dismantle and disregard until some people decided that we should base laws, rights and who we are on them instead of actual facts.

I don't like the term 'women and transmen' when talking about cervixes because it implies that 'woman' means something other than 'adult human female'.

Edge I do agree with you.

In this context, if KS had answered like this it would have shifted the conversation around women v TW for the general masses and made the point that being female doesn't go away.

Being male doesn't go away.

Which leads to discussion around prisons and being female etc.

Why does labour keep on going on about this crap instead of holding the government to account for their incompetent behaviour and providing a viable opposition

It’s not inclusive to remove the language women use to describe themselves, it’s not inclusive to deny reality for more than half the population to appease a vocal minority.

What happened to “no one is denying sex is real”? Because if that’s the case, transmen know they’re female and know they have a cervix, but let’s be honest here, this isn’t being done for them, is it?

As for your disgusting dismissal of women, telling us it doesn’t affect us, seriously, open your fucking eyes. Go tell women being locked up with rapists that they aren’t being affected.

@CuriousaboutSamphire. Can you tell me why people write wimin or wimmin instead of women? Too many posters are doing it for it to be a spelling mistake so what point are you making. Thanks.