Starker: Not only women have a cervix

Its impossible to understand an incoherent and self-contradictory ideology. That's why most posters arguing TWAW disappear (or call bigot) when asked intelligent questions.

What @ozzyteabiscuitbsaid: I'm not remotely alienated by the term 'individuals with a cervix' because I am an individual with a cervix. It's inclusive.

There’s fucking loads of stuff to be upset/worried/dispirited about right now. This isn’t one of them.

If you don't want trans women in your women's spaces how do you feel about trans men being forced to stay in women's spaces.

When an individual who looks and sounds like a man cannot go into men's spaces and therefore has to be in women's spaces would you have a problem with this? Would they have to drop trow and prove they have the anatomy you associate with women. Or how about genetic testing results to prove what chromosomes they have?

I foresee problems with this solution too.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Avcp-e4bOs

If you want a trans voice and opinion feel free to watch a trans mans response to JKR.

Women only spaces is a different argument, just because I agree with inclusive language doesn't mean I think transgender men should be allowed in traditionally women only spaces. This should be looked at in a case by case basis for the safety of women and trans women.

I think you're getting mixed up here. Nobody is saying women and transwomen are in danger of violence from transmen. It's the ones born male who present the problem.

Also in this sentence you say 'women and transwomen'. But then you say later in your post you can't say 'women and transmen', in reference to cervical screening, although these are the two groups that need it.
I genuinely don't understand.

“”This is not solved by using the phrase 'women and trans men' it's just another way of suggesting trans men are women which they aren't””

I can catch the bus and train to work. The train isn’t another way of saying bus. The bus is very different.

This is not solved by using the phrase 'women and trans men' it's just another way of suggesting trans men are women which they aren't

If I said 'cats and dogs are common household pets' I wouldn't be saying dogs ARE cats.

“”Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces. “”

Of course it is as 98% of violence is committed by men. But yet again you want women to roll over and give up their safe spaces because men are violent. Why not deal with the male violence issue instead.

Stats have also shown that transwomen violence is at exactly the same rate as male violence. So why would women want trans women or males in their safe spaces?

I'm not remotely alienated by the term 'individuals with a cervix' because I am an individual with a cervix.

How does one know one is an individual with a cervix ?
It might be important to know for cervical cancer screening.

Also children may or may not have a cervix, I don't think they need to be screened, but how would one know ?

“Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces.”

Again: YES. You’re right. The real problem is male violence. Go fix that first and then come back to us and talk cervices once you’ve done it.

Oh I'm sure the TRAs will be coming for the science textbooks next. Trying to erase the fact of XX and XY chromosomes because its not "inclusive".

“which is why suicide in the trans community is so high.”

But it isn’t. The Samaritans have disagreed with that. Where is your evidence as you really shouldn’t be making those kind of statements about suicide.

But if you believe TWAW how can you justify excluding them from women-only spaces? Your arguments aren't coherent.

And I'm not sure you understand the English language if you think saying "women and trans men" is a way of suggesting that trans men are women.

Only women have can have a cervix - this is a biological fact. Bizarre that people are trying to pretend otherwise when this is available information for basic science textbook.

An individual with a cervix is exclusive of half the population.
We should be more inclusive I think.

We should talk about individuals.
All individuals should have access to the smear test. Those who don't need it should be given a participation sticker so they don't feel bad about being left out...

I mean being inclusive is the more important thing here right? Way more important than accuracy and clarity surely? Especially in the medical field...

I mean heart attacks in individuals with cervix do present different from the other individuals but if we said we need to do research on heart attacks in individuals with a cervix we might miss important information on the left out individuals so we should just do research on individuals.

There! That cleared things right up.

Women only spaces is a different argument, just because I agree with inclusive language doesn't mean I think transgender men should be allowed in traditionally women only spaces. This should be looked at in a case by case basis for the safety of women and trans women.

Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces.

Why does trans inclusive language make you you feel dehumanised? This is not solved by using the phrase 'women and trans men' it's just another way of suggesting trans men are women which they aren't.

The main point is to clarify OPs initial fear which was that trans women are taking up cervical exam appointments away from women which they aren't.

You can disagree that trans men aren't men and trans women aren't women but I don't agree and won't agree. I sincerely hope that none of your family of friends reveal to you they are trans as it is this kind of response which is why suicide in the trans community is so high.

What kier confirmed is that.

The word woman means gender 100%.
It's right to refer to the billions of women and girls by referencing their vaginas, cervixes, call them menstruators etc.

Any reference to women by default includes any male who IDs as a woman.

Any laws, commentary, international orgs, etc etc. When they reference women he will take it to mean both males and females.

I look forward to seeing him talking about VAWG or the plight of women in Afghanistan etc. By using the terms people with vaginas. Or similar.

As a lawyer I'm sure consistency and accuracy are important to him.

Let's wait and see eh...

“The rest of us are not willing to be dehumanised for their sake.”

0.1% of the population and even less for trans men.

Ozzyteabiscuit “Sex and gender are not the same thing.”

Yes. YES. You’re right.
Female and woman refer to sex.

Someone can choose to identify as a different gender, if they wish to, (though personally i think its a massive retrograde step) but they can’t change their biological sex.

I like to think we've come to a point where women can be seen as fully formed humans, not just a selection of body parts and functions, but I guess when you're immersed in a misogynistic mindset its easy to see that kind of language as harmless.

Split arse
Cunt
Bleeder
Piece of ass
Breeder
Birthing body
Vulva person
Cervix haver
Menstruator

Spot the difference

Sex and gender are not the same thing.

We know. We know that trans men are, in fact, women with 'gender identities'.

Trans man is an individual with XX chromosomes who identifies as male.

'Identifies as' is not the same as 'Is'.

Women who choose not to use the noun for mammals of their species and sex are still women, and unless they have had it surgically excised, will need to attend for cancer screening tests appropriate to their sex. Not their 'gender identity'.

The rest of us are not willing to be dehumanised for their sake.

I'm sure all the female children in Afghanistan need to do to access an education is to identify as a boy. Because clearly they are choosing their own oppression. Women (that'll be the individuals without a Y chromosome) are always oppressed because of their biology and sadly we can't identify out of it. Biology is real, gender is a tool of the patriarchy to keep women in their place.

www.bbc.com/news/health-56942480

A male who was born female? This is what we are teaching our doctors these days...?

Are we to do away with the offensive words man woman, male and female and just refer to each other as cervix’s and scrotums?

It’s beyond ridiculous and there is so much more we need to be worrying about. The boat has tipped v much the other way against women- without our goddam cervix and womb there would be no goddam procreation -