Starker: Not only women have a cervix

I'm not advocating we get rid of the terms man and woman. I am a woman and happy to be called a woman.
Ok. But when articles and health related campaigns refer to "individuals with a cervix" rather than women, how do my former ESOL students know that means them?
And actually my friends DS with ASD would tell you he has a cervix, because he knows it means neck and he has a neck.

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?
Of course they are. Has anyone actually ever said otherwise? Surely it's the TRAs referring to women as "cervix havers" and "menstruators" who are removing such women from their sex class? My mum is still a woman despite having a hysterectomy 20 years ago. My best friend is still a woman despite having absolutely everything removed.

If an individual has XY chromosome but still has all the female reproductive organs (swyer syndrome) are they a woman? I'm afraid I don't know enough about this to answer. But I do know that people with DSDs (which I assume swyer syndrome is) have repeatedly asked not to be used as a "gotcha" by the trans rights lobbyists.

If it was

Women and people with a cervix.
Women and trans men.
Women for main message and then. A prominent note saying. If you are trans and female you still need XXX. Go here for more info.

You say 'transwomen are women and transmen are men ' but also 'facts are facts.'

How is it biologically possible for a human being to change sex ?
It's not.

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

Well nobody would be removing those organs from a man would they?

So yes, women with health complications relating to their reproductive organs are still women. They have to be women to have those complications in the first place. Surgery doesn't change that.

The only way to know if you have a cervix. Is by:

1. knowing that females( generally called women girls by the vast majority of the population) have them

And.

1. Understanding the word cervix and who has one in the first place. It's not like a penis. You can't see it. Very few ever feel it. If you read your smear letters carefully and listen etc then you would. If you could understand it. If you could read it. If you didn't glance and think oh smear right.

1. And if you didn't confuse with cervical when it's spine. And that includes men. I mean penis people. Who might mistake it for back.

And when anyone who knows all that reads people with a cervix.

In their head they think oh they mean women.

How many don't? In all honesty? How many people do not connect menstruator, person with a vagina, to woman(girl, female) in their head when reading those terms.

So all it does is:

Work on the idea that people know if they have a cervix because they know they're a woman/ girl.
If they know what a cervix is at all.
Put a step in for internal translation of the meaning.

So the whole thing only works because everyone knows if they are male female. And from that the different things are assumed to be there. With women often not known assumed.
And the vast majority of the general public. Use woman girl for sex. Including strangely the orgs and individuals who are very very much in favour of using menstruator etc. But only sometimes. At other times they happily use women girls to mean female. And are apparently oblivious to their inconsistent and hypocritical approach.

So no. People with a cervix is terrible for loads of reasons.

if an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

Fuck off with this tired old trope. It has been posted so many times.

I'm not sure why they can't say 'Women and other people with a cervix. 'Women and other people who menstruate'. 'Expectant mothers and other pregnant people'. It's inconclusive and much clearer than the cervix-havers and menstruators language.

If organs and chromosomes don't dictate whether you are male or female, what does?

I would also like to see that evidence, I thought the stats showed that trans women offended at the same rate as other biological males?

Just because I believe trans women are women and trans men are men doesn't mean I disagree with science. I have a masters in science, facts are facts.

Nobody can deny they have certain organs, I just don't believe having those organs dictates whether you are male or female.

If an individual has major surgery for health reasons and has uterus, ovaries, cervix removed, are they a woman?

If an individual has XY chromosome but still has all the female reproductive organs (swyer syndrome) are they a woman?

Gender is a social construct that should be decided by the individual.

Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces.

What is your source for this evidence?

@ozzyteabiscuit why are women reduced to our body parts!? Am I a cadaver??

[quote HereticFanjo]@ozzyteabiscuit - good news! Trans by Helen Joyce is on offer on Kindle for 99p today. If you're interested in finding out why this kind of language makes women uneasy, have a read. Excellent book, bargain price, one day only![/quote]
Thanks for this info - just bought myself a copy!

I can reliably tell you that 12 year olds do not know they have a cervix in my family.

I can also reliably tell you when my child was 9 and their friends started their periods early, they had no idea what the word menstruator/menstruation meant.

But of course, these girls don’t count at all.

Nothing to see here… you girls are not important enough to make sure language being used communicates to the maximum of people needing the information.

Oh! And as a parent of said child, obviously I am not affected either.

Nothing to see here….

How do you know you're an individual with a cervix?

This is a key point.
I have two children, how do I do which one has a cervix?
Shall I send them both off for an internal scan or do you have any other hand hints for identifying which one might possess this body part?

@ozzyteabiscuit I'm glad that you have downloaded the book and will read it. I applaud for you being intellectually honest enough to read about the other side of the argument. I'm fully supportive of transgender people living their lives however they want to but I won't buy into the Emperor's new clothes argument that a man can magically change into a woman just by saying that he feels like one (let alone the people like Pip Bunce who apparently change between being a man and a woman day by day). It's an incoherent, dangerous and illogical fallacy that has real consequences for hard-won women's rights, especially the most vulnerable women in society.

ozzyteabiscuit

I'm not remotely alienated by the term 'individuals with a cervix' because I am an individual with a cervix. It's inclusive.

How do you know you're an individual with a cervix? I assume at some point in your life you were taught that you were female and that females have a cervix.
How will future generations of females know if the words female and male no longer have meaning?

I also assume you either have English as a first language and/or an education at a level that means you understand what "individual with a cervix means". What about the ESOL students I used to teach? They knew they were women. They knew who men were (for cultural reasons they weren't allowed in the classes.) I can't imagine how long it would have taken to teach them this new complex language. Rather than "women have to go to the drs for smear tests/mammograms".

Maybe look outside your own privileged bubble.

Maybe another day you will get to the end of the video, because really it's not my opinion that matters, it's those who are directly affected by the arguments above.

That a person lecturing women that the language used to describe women and to communicate to women cannot see the absolute hypocrisy in their own words is pretty clear.

And that a woman who doesn’t understand they have cervix (as the survey done recently proved. Over 50% wasn’t it?) due to language or whatever reason is nowhere near as important as one who doesn’t identify as a ‘woman’ is perfectly clear. That those women are forgotten doesn’t even register to posters keen on shaming and admonishing others.

It's like getting two labour supporters to give you an objective review of politics while one gives the Labour standpoint and the other gives the what-Labour-wants-you-to-think-the-Conservative-standpoint-is-while-totally-misrepresenting-it. If that's where your views on these issues comes from I totally understand why your arguments are so incoherent now.

If you don't want trans women in your women's spaces how do you feel about trans men being forced to stay in women's spaces.

Why would they be forced to stay in women's spaces?

There’s fucking loads of stuff to be upset/worried/dispirited about right now. This isn’t one of them.

Getting cancer is pretty worrying, but luckily there is a screening programme freely available which helps to prevent deaths.

Again I ask, how does one know one has a cervix ?

I tried to watch that YouTube video but being told that I'm not allowed to be offended at being called a cis woman and that TWAW from the person who is allegedly putting forward the gender critical argument meant I could no longer take the rest of it seriously. I tried, I really did.