Starmer on Marr now

I'm not spinning. I'm simply trying to understand. I think it's grim when people are edited or misinterpreted. Look at how horrible the misinterpretation of JKRs tweet about ignoring the pornographic abuse she was sent was.
I have no intention of voting labour and this goes back to 2016 when Jess Phillips tried to get a private members bill through replacing sex with gender identity in EQ2010 in advance of the planned consultation. Their objective were clear then.

The Conservative government actually understood the consultation feedback and changed direction, Labour haven't and won't.

Labour should stay relegated for as long as possible.

And someone asked earlier on a thread about private schools why the red wall turned blue.

Its like half the UK just lives in a parallel universe.

I really doubt that he was saying the accusations of transphobia against Rosie were “not right to say”, the question was “is it transphobic to say only women have a cervix” and he said “it is something that shouldn’t be said, it’s not right”. I don’t see any way to spin that as support for Rosie? At the very least you’d think he would have corrected this impression if people are taking it in the opposite way to what he meant, and he hasn’t.

Unfortunately I have to conclude that he has come off the fence and landed squarely on the side of this damaging ideology. I am very disappointed, I am a lefty at heart but this issue is a deal breaker for me.

I’ve gotta say if you think that was him showing he stands by Rosie you must think he’s a walking talking example of dumb as dog shit.

Are you Angela Rayner?

And no, I don't think people are as dumb as dog shit. Feel free to describe people that way but don't ascribe it to me.

Do none of these politicians see what I’m seeing? In trying to justify their party position and tying themselves up in linguistic knots to justify the conflation of sex and gender, they are perpetuating a narrative that IMO is harming many of our young vulnerable teen girls.

So many young girls that I see who are increasingly confused, maybe feel different, perhaps have SpLDs or are on the spectrum, who are led to believe that they can change their sex as easily as changing a name or pronoun. Who don’t see that they are collateral damage in the strategy to dismantle single sex spaces because they are kind and because they do want to be inclusive and supportive. And because they are young, inexperienced in female discrimination.

All aided and abetted by our liberal politicians perfectly happy that these girls become that collateral damage. I picture Keir and Angela et al sticking cotton wool in their ears going ‘I can’t hear you’ when others try to explain the implications of their putatively well intended support for some margalinised communities.

Or… I would have assumed well intended support but for Charley’s post about her research.

I'm absolutely fucking livid with Starmer (his left wing leadership contenders signed the stupid trans pledge, so I knew they were doomed; I had vague clearly fucking misplaced optimism that Starmer would have / see sense.

It really is embarrassing how desperate I am to find a reason to vote Labour, and how I eagerly I hoover up any scraps they throw my way, e.g. that non-statement earlier this week. But the day will come when I no longer care what they say.

When do we get the Green's leadership results? Ali is my only hope right now, as I'm just not sure I can bring myself to vote Tory. What a fucking mess.

Same with Sadiq Kahn earlier. His immediate response to a question was to look around in all directions in panic.

Neither of them are examples of strong leadership.

As Sarah Ditum rightly pointed out on Twitter, he’s more tolerant of Angela Rayner calling people scum than of women talking about biology.

What a disappointment KS is. Eleven years in opposition and the only real plan on Electing a Leader is rubbished, not even taken seriously.

To heal the UK, STOP talking about Brexit. Re-state the Sex Discrimination Act, take heed of Judge Holdroyds summing up in the case of men in womens prisons.
Vote Tory then get rid of the old guard like ReesMogg and Boris and see what the Red Wall types can do. Some of the Northern Mayors and Council Leaders are making a good difference.
They Can change. They will change if it is in their interest to change.

ps Great respect for Andy Burnham too.

So, I guess the best case scenario would be that Keir is playing the long game. Trying to get enough votes from the young, brainwashed voters to win Labour the GE. Once he's done that, he'll do what every politician does and do the opposite of what he said in the run up for the votes. Therefore, his plan is to actually uphold women's rights in every way. He just can't let the secret slip yet...

I know that isn't going to happen, would have been a clever tactic, though. If there was enough people left who actually run with this crap, that is.

I'd chew off my own hands if I thought there was any chance that I'd vote Tory - but any party that thinks I'll vote for the erasure of women's few and hard-won rights wants its bumps feeling
(Excellent post Charlie , thanks)

Keir Starmer says Rosie Duffield trans comments 'not right' and urges 'mature debate'

We know when they say 'mature debate', what they really mean is ''bodies with vaginas, just shut up whilst we mansplain to you why you're actually wrong by chanting untrue mantras and waving pretty flags, and then when we've finished talking you can just agree that we're right or we'll call you a transphobe, thank you''.

I do think he was trying to stand by Rosie.

If he was really trying to stand by Rosie he could have made an unambiguous statement that it's not transphobic to say that.

Interesting to see a lot of comments under Javid's tweets couldn't care less and go straight to the whataboutery on unrelated issues. Another big chunk taking it as proof he wants trans people to commit suicide or otherwise suffer. A lot of people suddenly giving a toss about intersex people and those with even rarer conditions. Where the hell is the nuance?

So much smoke and mirrors here. Plain English and facts are needed more than ever.

The "not right" was where Marr cut him off. He continues by saying "Oh, Andrew, I don’t think that we can just go through various things that people have said"

So I'm prepared to take that as him not wishing to use tweet rows as a mature debate. Which I agree with.

It didn't come over clearly and it's massive fence sitting still and the word "transphobic" probably is as incomprehensible an accusation to him as it is to the majority of the country, but I do think he was trying to stand by Rosie.

Luckily we had a MRLP candidate here at the last GE!

Great Post Charlie
I can't trust them at all. Sneaks

And where is the successor to Screaming Lord Sutch???
Or Tarquin Fin Tim Lin Whim bim lim Bus-stop F'tang F'tang Olè Biscuit Barrel??
Can't be any worse
Politically homeless and despairing here

Pressed send too soon! Meant to add there are plenty of leftwing members - despite the expulsions - who oppose Self ID.

Puts me in mind of Hilda Ogden, the esteemed Northern philosopher
To paraphrase- " Woman, Keir, Woman" !!!!!!!