Women's Wellbeing in Prisons

Discussed on Woman’s Hour today with the Ombudsman , being rather defensive about what happened and how it was dealt with. Male staff did not pass on messages and emergency call not responded to. If women can’t be looked after when giving birth we cannot rely on them when women are being attacked by men in women’s facilities either. Agree with Arabella that the money for 500 new places for women should be spent in keeping women and especially pregnant women out of prison. To
The two posters on here telling us off know f.all about these issues so should just f.off.

David Lammy rightly brought it to light again this week.

Could the OP perhaps share what he said?

That might have been a good starting point...

It is also interesting that the OP pointed out David Lammy when the names in the article are...

Sue McAllister, Prisons and Probation Ombudsman

Vicky Robinson,Director or Bronzefield

Suzanne Rankin, the chief executive of Ashford and St. Peter's Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

And again the journalists are female:

By Lizzie Massey and June Kelly

And whilst Lammy is leading the Lammy Review, a review of BAME women and how they are treated in the criminal justice system (2017) he isn't actually named in the article and the OP didn't link to what Lammy has said on this particular failure for this 18 year old woman and death of a newborn baby.

I'll save the OP the trouble, having checked his Twitter it's...oh he last tweeted about women in prison in February.

Saying that thoughI do find this very interesting and I agree with him (from 2019)

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/most-bame-women-in-prison-there-because-of-a-man-says-david-lammyukk_5c9a0912e4b07435554a478c

Lammy can bring it to light all he likes, interesting to see a poster in the sex and gender board celebrating a male MP for talking about this when it's largely women are doing the hard graft on the research, data gathering, report writing, awareness raising and reform campaigning and then there's the journalism...

Written by Hannah Devlin and Diane Taylor

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/22/hmp-bronzefield-baby-death-prison-births

It notes failures and deaths, much like the other case Lammy graciously bestowed light on...

Perhaps instead we could talk about this woman, Baroness Corston who was chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party, the first woman ever to hold that position.

She was in office for almost a decade before Lammy took office, she was elected as an MP in 1992 (when Lanny was 20 years old) and who has been focused on this particular issue since her report in 2007.

"Jean Corston endured poverty and tragedy before becoming an MP and now a peer. Now, 10 years after her landmark report, she is still fighting to reform women’s prisons"

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/19/jean-corston-women-prison-reform-if-i-can-make-it-so-can-you

But sure, let's talk about David Lammy.

What? No return?

How very disappointing. You'd think, being so interested, or so annoyed by the apparent lack of care about this issue, that either of the first two posters would have been back... then again, apologising for their errors isn't their style, is it?

Pshaw!

Oh my, even the government was looking at this in 2014....

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/905559/summary-report-of-review-of-policy-on-mbu.pdf

Oh look, here are more women looking at this area and what is needed to support other women.

www.nicco.org.uk/userfiles/downloads/5ac5e7eabfa90-birth-companions-charter.pdf

Background reading - after 25 years the Maternity Alliance was forced to close in 2005 due to a lack of funding

www.maternityaction.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/prisonsreport.pdf

Maybe those criticising should launch a crowdfunder for it to be reopened? I would certainly donate.

And also this

Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4181653-Women-shouldn-t-have-to-go-to-court-to-beg-not-to-be-locked-up-with-intact-male-rapists

Just a few, top of my head, examples to show a) it is being discussed - maybe you would like to join in and share a view of how women in prison could be better cared for and housed safely? b) Mumsnetters do care, there are many more threads to choose from if you bothered to search for more on this particular topic before you came to criticise and c) the board split that was requested to keep sex and gender separate from other discussions on feminism hasn't worked to the benefit of those who requested if you don't follow the rules and maybe it's isn't the gotcha you thought it was.

WPUK meeting coming up on women and prisons:

womansplaceuk.org/events/

This from earlier this year

Why are pregnant women in UK prisons? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/surveysstudentssnonprofitssandstartt_ups/3968996-Why-are-pregnant-women-in-UK-prisons

This from 2018

'Womens' prisons are not nice places' (may be upsetting) www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3399670-Womens-prisons-are-not-nice-places-may-be-upsetting

There's also this

DM article - interview with female attacked in prison. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4304592-DM-article-interview-with-female-attacked-in-prison

If you only frequent this board to tell women how to 'feminist' properly you might not be aware of a) the recent board split, b) that this board is limited to discussion around sex and gender (the clue is in the name) and c) that there is another board where women is prison, their well-being and that of their children is already being discussed, just this morning in fact this thread was started....

Shocking case of young woman who gave birth in prison - BBC radio 4 Today www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4356486-shocking-case-of-young-woman-who-gave-birth-in-prison-bbc-radio-4-today

People do care, just not here, here it's mainly middle class feminism against gender here, those in prison aren't (mainly) middle class. Gc can raise tens of thousands for men kicked out of a course but can't raise a penny for prison services. The feminism here is quite different, it's just a single issue group.

Please do share the actions you take to raise awareness of the treatment of women in UK prisons anaily.

Our prison system is utterly fucked. It fails women horribly who are, for the most part, imprisoned for non-violent crime.

The feminist analysis covers the different reasons women are jailed, the disproportionate impact on families when mothers are in prison, the almost ubiquitous background of domestic/sexual/childhood abuse imprisoned women have and more. Allowing natal males to enter the female estate only further marginalises this very vulnerable cohort of women.

More widely, we can look at our prison and penal system as a whole to explore the widespread institutional failings that also affect men (and trans people). While feminists can and should focus on women and unique issues like pregnancy while incarcerated, it's likely that their work on prison reform would, if successful, benefit male prisoners as well. Better mental health care, better educational opportunities, better facilities, fewer short sentences, better reintegration services etc. would benefit everyone.

Radical feminists like Julie Bindel have been doing such work for decades. Funny that TRAs like Ash Sarkar enjoy denigrating them while doing fuck all themselves.

People do care, just not here, here it's mainly middle class feminism against gender here, those in prison aren't (mainly) middle class.

Bollocks.

My feminist group demonstrated outside our nearby women's prison. Proper old school placarded demo. We heard later that it had really moved and encouraged the prisoners. It's important they know they're not forgotten.

Independent investigation into the death of Baby A at HMP Bronzefield on 27 September 2019

INQUEST's response

I find the assertion that David Lammy brought this to light hilarious, what a dopey MRA your posts make you look 🤡

Do you imagine the publication of the ombudsman's report and the inquest's response had nothing to with it?

The OPs intentions may not be good, but thank you for drawing my attention to this. I can’t afford a daily newspaper and although I’m sure I saw the BBC news and website I didn’t see this. Checking the BBC today, the most watched story is adverse hair dye reactions.
The pregnant woman was a teenager!

You should have looked before jumping in to berate posters here (again).

Wrong board, OP. You may want to report and request it is moved to the correct board. Although a duplicate thread.

Yet from what I read yesterday, they are increasing the numbers of prison places for women, when the best approach would be the complete opposite. That money could be spent on mental health care, which is sorely in need of resources. It's so wrong.

Yep. David Lammy has hands down done the most harm to women in prison. He doesn't get to be a hero now. The story of this poor women has been on my mind since I read the article. It's heart breaking. We desperately need prison reform.