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Does Lisa Nandy hate women?

88 replies

TedImgoingmad · 23/09/2021 00:00

Lisa Nandy on Peston this evening.

Peston: ....your colleague, Rosie Duffield, who, you know, insists, and many would agree with her, is not remotely a transphobe, does not feel safe going to Labour conference. What does that tell you about the Labour Party?

Nandy: Well it's appalling that anybody could feel unsafe going to Labour conference, and I think Kier was right to say on behalf of the whole party that we will stand up to that sort of behaviour. Nobody should feel intimidated out of our politics. I come from that school of politics myself. I have profound disagreements with many people across the political spectrum....but I respect their right to disagree with me, I think that's how we get better as a country, and I think Kier was right to stand up for that and say we have to have these debates.

Peston: But he hasn't made it safe for her to go and that's a failure.

Nandy: Well, a-a you know, I'm very clear that Rosie is welcome at our conference and I'll do everything that I can to support her to make sure that she is, and I'm also very clear that trans men and women are welcome in the Labour Party and that we will always stand up for them and against the bigotry and discrimination that they face in society. I have a young person in my constituency who's going through this at the moment. 2 in 5 trans young people have attempted suicide. That should really give us pause for thought about how we're treating people. Social media is not our friend in all of this. We've got to take the heat out of some of the conversations, shed far far more light, and start to tackle the real issues, like why it is that so many trans people across the country are waiting years for help and support on the National Health Service... [ cut off by Peston]
Peston: I, I completely - many people watching will completely agree with you on the pernicious impact of social media on these important debates, it's something we should all be concerned about. Lisa, thanks for joining us.

Nice to know where Lisa's priorities lie with respect to the rights, experiences and fears of women such as Rosie Duffield and the rest of us mere cunty women. Nowhere near as important to Lisa as the "real issues".

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DelphiniumBlue · 23/09/2021 20:30

@PermanentTemporary

According to Stonewall, one in five (27%) of trans young people report attempting suicide (youth chances survey 2014). Two in five report being attacked or threatened with violence (different survey). Grim.

And it may sound petty but if you're going to use statistics, particularly about suicide, it matters getting them right. I think LN probably meant to use the attack statistic as that's more relevant to the Rosie Duffield story, but muddled it with the suicide statistic. I think if you're not confident at producing this stuff on the hoof in interviews, and God knows it must be difficult, maybe keep to more general stuff

I have no idea if those stats are correct- I really hope they are not. Purely anecdotally, more than 2 out of 5 of the women I know have been attacked or threatened with violence. I’d say its more like 75%. This includes family and friends suffering actual violence from someone they know, colleagues being threatened by random strangers in pubs and nightclubs, young women being physically attacked on public transport and in bars (failing to win the Euros was a bad night for many women) . It doesn’t include the verbal abuse and intimidation that almost all women have been on the receiving end of at some point. So whilst I’m not happy that anyone is being attacked and I m sure trans people are sadly targets for nasty bullies, it’s nothing new for women. It’s probably quite shocking for people who were formerly men to experience that level of abuse if they didn’t grow up with it. Unfortunately natal women are used to it.
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/09/2021 20:15

Is nandy severely lacking critical thinking skills? Evidently

Yup. In the leadership election race, she came across as really stupid. Logically, this cannot be the case, because she has done pretty well academically, so the problem is presumably more that she has never had her theories challenged by interaction with the real world. Her only jobs outside politics have been as a policy advisor to large charities, which are very much part of the same bubble as Westminster.

I'm no fan of Rebecca Long-Bailey, either, but at least she has a bit of a spark, and some real world experience. Nandy just seems dim, smug and complacent.

LobsterNapkin · 23/09/2021 19:08

It could be that she's the sort of person who never changes her view on anything.

Cwenthryth · 23/09/2021 15:57

The fact she has nothing new to say on the subject in 2 years just demonstrates that she really has no knowledge or understanding of the issue (impact of self-ID on women’s sex-based rights) at all. She can only parrot stock phrases and repeat what she’s been told to say. Useful idiot for TRAs, basically.

Rhannion · 23/09/2021 15:51

Tweet Peston about not taking her on about it, I did but doubt I’ll get an answer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/09/2021 15:49

Has anyone noticed that Lisa Nandy seems to say more or less exactly the same on this subject and has beem doing so for at least two years.

YY, she's like one of those battery operated toys you get that you press and they have about 8 phrases that they say. "There is a young trans girl in my constituency", "the debate needs more light and less heat"

RedDogsBeg · 23/09/2021 15:45

I don't think Lisa Nandy hates women that would require a level of emotional investment, it's worse than hate what Lisa Nandy has for women it is contempt and complete and utter indifference.

What Lisa fails to grasp is that once Lisa has outlived her usefulness to the cause Lisa is slavishly pandering to and supporting Lisa will be tossed on the scrap heap like the rest of us without so much as a backward glance from those whose feet Lisa is desperately kissing.

Flapjak · 23/09/2021 15:39

Has anyone noticed that Lisa Nandy seems to say more or less exactly the same on this subject and has beem doing so for at least two years. Its almost like she has a few stock phrases to appease the blue rinse brigade and really doesnt care about the issue one way or another either trans righta or womens rights

Jaysmith71 · 23/09/2021 14:39

Nobody ever found Enoch Powell's little old lady in Wolverhampton who was getting dogshit pushed through her letterbox. The consensus is she never existed. But her legacy lives on.

PaleGreenGhost · 23/09/2021 13:51

@GreyhoundG1rl

I wonder who exactly this young person in Nandy's constituency can possibly be, that entire policies need to be rewritten to alleviate their oppression? I'm fucking sick of hearing about them, whether they actually exist or not.
When you put it like that, I assume the maffia!
GreyhoundG1rl · 23/09/2021 13:48

I wonder who exactly this young person in Nandy's constituency can possibly be, that entire policies need to be rewritten to alleviate their oppression?
I'm fucking sick of hearing about them, whether they actually exist or not.

Whatthechicken · 23/09/2021 13:41

Instead of relying on that single anecdote for her arguments, maybe she should look at it from another point of view. What about the thousands the women in her constituency that are currently being abused? What about women that contemplate wether they could face violence/rape/murder every time they leave the house and worry about going out at night? What about the news we see everyday of another woman being murdered? What about the news stories we don’t see because it’s just not news worthy, because it happens all the bloody time. What about them LN?

PaleGreenGhost · 23/09/2021 13:34

I have a young person in my constituency who's going through this at the moment. 2 in 5 trans young people have attempted suicide

I wish I could say to her this is not the gotcha you think it is! False suicide stats aside, you're telling us about a young person affected by homophobia and sexism. Possibly non-neurotypical and possibly a survivor of some kind of abuse. Those are the important points and relevant to a lot of young people. Tell me how you plan on helping with those issues?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 23/09/2021 13:11

@RedDogsBeg

I have a young person in my constituency who's going through this at the moment.

That young person does a hell of a lot of heavy lifting for Nandy is used to justify anything and everything including putting a man who was convicted of being a paedophile rapist in the female prison estate.

I sometimes wonder if the young person and the family in question ever think: "I went to her as an individual. I never thought I'd be used as a human shield for the erasure of women as a sex class, the mixing of prisons, hospital wards…I don't consent to being a shield for this."
RedDogsBeg · 23/09/2021 13:08

I have a young person in my constituency who's going through this at the moment.

That young person does a hell of a lot of heavy lifting for Nandy is used to justify anything and everything including putting a man who was convicted of being a paedophile rapist in the female prison estate.

RoyalCorgi · 23/09/2021 12:58

@LastSummerHere

She, like every TRA, is indifferent to women and women's lives. She can only see the issue from the perspective of men. She has not once considered the issue from the viewpoint of women and I would say that this is a form of hatred that all the TRAs share. Many of them seem incapable of putting themselves in women's shoes ironically, and have no interest in doing so. She simply wouldn't be a TRA if she put value on women and our lives.
I think that's right. For someone like Nandy, it's very much a luxury belief. She could afford to support putting a rapist into a women's prison - as she did during the Labour leadership campaign - because she's never going to go to prison. Neither is she likely to need the support of a domestic violence or rape crisis centre. She almost certainly doesn't take part in competitive sport. None of this makes any difference to her.

The fact that she constantly makes reference to the one gender-dysphoric child in her constituency (population: 74,000) tells me that she has given next to no thought to this issue. This single anecdote is all she's got. She backs it up with suicide statistics that she either knows are wrong or, more probably, hasn't bothered to check.

This is the calibre of the people we have representing us in parliament. It gives me the chills.

LobsterNapkin · 23/09/2021 12:53

I don't think she hates women. I just don't think she has the right kind of mind for formulating policy.

LastSummerHere · 23/09/2021 12:48

She, like every TRA, is indifferent to women and women's lives. She can only see the issue from the perspective of men. She has not once considered the issue from the viewpoint of women and I would say that this is a form of hatred that all the TRAs share. Many of them seem incapable of putting themselves in women's shoes ironically, and have no interest in doing so. She simply wouldn't be a TRA if she put value on women and our lives.

oldwomanwhoruns · 23/09/2021 12:47

Arty Morty made a really good point on 'The Mess We're In' the other day, re. waiting lists for gender surgery (etc).

His point was, that long waiting lists are really useful, because they are self-selecting - the vast majority of people (can't remember if he said people or men) will have changed their minds, by the time their appointment comes around. So the 'impulsive' decisions get weeded out.
How about that, Ms Nandy? Long NHS Gender doo-dah waiting lists are a Good Thing.

And if your constituent had been put on the end of an even longer queue, the intervening puberty might have made them change their mind, and they wouldn't now be a lifelong medical patient. Win-win.

CharlieParley · 23/09/2021 12:35

@Artichokeleaves

I wish Nandy would make it outside of her ivory tower for five minutes and try meeting some other children in her consistuency.

Like the ones from minority faiths and cultures, with disabilities, or who have experienced DV, VAG and trauma, who are going to grow up with no services or spaces they can access, in some cases including school toilets.

Are they not cute enough or something? There'll be a hell of a lot more of them than this one single dysphoric child - and surely Nandy's got a brain capable of seeing that she doesn't have to choose which child gets help and throw the others to the wolves?

There are actually solutions where every child could have equal provision made, and it's called actual inclusion and diversity.

This ☝️
Artichokeleaves · 23/09/2021 12:05

I wish Nandy would make it outside of her ivory tower for five minutes and try meeting some other children in her consistuency.

Like the ones from minority faiths and cultures, with disabilities, or who have experienced DV, VAG and trauma, who are going to grow up with no services or spaces they can access, in some cases including school toilets.

Are they not cute enough or something? There'll be a hell of a lot more of them than this one single dysphoric child - and surely Nandy's got a brain capable of seeing that she doesn't have to choose which child gets help and throw the others to the wolves?

There are actually solutions where every child could have equal provision made, and it's called actual inclusion and diversity.

FloralBunting · 23/09/2021 11:53

Nandy doesn't hate women, but they just don't factor in her priorities because she made a pinky promise to a family in her constituency with a gender dysphoric child that she would never ever say anything that would stop them getting what they want.

That's how politics works, right? Whoever gets you to pinky swear first gets the support?

Women just had the wrong strategy. We should have been getting MPs to be our bestie and promise to give us what we want regardless of who it damages.

futureghost · 23/09/2021 11:26

@OhHolyJesus

We've got to take the heat out of some of the conversations, shed far far more light

She has been saying this for over 2 years now. It's was all less heat and more light in the run up to the elections. She hasn't done anything but fuel the fire and tighten the curtains further. She is an absolute idiot in my view and a traitor to women, inc Rosie.

This!
BaronMunchausen · 23/09/2021 11:10

Public figures really need to take a lot more care when talking about suicide. Especially when associating it with particular groups of young people.

Lisa Nandy’s words brought to mind a recent to-camera video by a tearful rock musician who had been deeply hurt when a member of the public greeted him with “hey, are you the guy from [whatever the band was called]?” The musician, who presented as obviously male, said he had two options: wear makeup, or kill himself.

It was almost as if suicide has become part of the package.

SpindleWorld · 23/09/2021 10:49

There are definitely a lot of blokes on MN these days.

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