LBC Coverage this week

Slythermum not at all, go ahead

Two years ago we had Glinner as the lone well known voice on the GC side, and were resigned to self-ID being imposed. Let's not lose sight of how far we've come.

KittenKong
When you say little photos of the members...

I think things are going to get worse before they get better but more people seem to be becoming aware of the issue as a result, which in itself is a positive.

I think legal challenges are the way forward. There's enough of us to contribute to various cases, and indeed party conference season aside, it will be reporting on legal cases that sways public opinion.
Most people don't believe things are that bad. Most people don't know women in prison are being attacked in prison by male sex offenders. Most people don't know that Stonewall wants to get rid of sex as a protected characteristic, or what that would actually mean if it were to become law.
Most people don't understand that we are facing the reality of "woman" being legally understood to be a feeling and not what half the adult population actually is.
But every time someone sues for being attacked in a women's prison by a male inmate, more people will realise it is actually happening.

And every time someone sues a government department for making up the law, people will realise the ramifications of inventing policy based on feelings instead of facts.

The most useful thing we could do now is to come up with a funding platform for future cases that can't be brought down by twitter activists.

I also think the tide is beginning to slowly turn. My sister used to take the mickey out of me... then I explained the whole ‘lesbians and the lady penis’ thing to her. Then she ended up working in a place that was wokey blokey central (I warned her that this is real - not a drill). She is right onboard now.

Right. I’ve had it now. Was looking for a book club to join. Oh, a ladies feminist club was advertised... little photos of the members... use your imagination... I’m well annoyed now.

Helen Joyce on Stella O'Malley's podcast about the importance of language and reality.

I mentioned more than language and extended into the implications for the public understanding of science etc.

Won’t have the language? I’m sure someone, somewhere will spot the difference...

they will see what they are being blinded to now - the sexism, the misogyny, the ‘be a good girl’ and ‘be kind’ for what it is

They won't have the language or the concepts to express it. Sex will no longer be a binary. Think about that. With everything else that formed the context at the time, where would we be now with first and second wave feminism if that simple binary and our various roles in reproduction hadn't been accepted as part of the framework.

The ramifications of what is being done to medicine, to science as well as to law and wider social harms - they're vast. I can't begin to describe them.

I'll have to stop because I'm consumed with anger about this. I don't wish to spread my profound pessimism more widely. (Also a NC'r.)

As they get older and wiser they will see what they are being blinded to now - the sexism, the misogyny, the ‘be a good girl’ and ‘be kind’ for what it is (‘shut up bitch), the unfairness of males being promoted over them again and agin in the basis of biology/old boys club, males taking and taking and taking...

Why didn’t you tell usssssss???

They'll work their way up, taking this default attitudes with them and never once being subject to critical thought or engagement or the task of truly producing an EqIA.

Helen Joyce recognises this. Even now it would take 10 years+ to unpick all of this mess, possibly 20 - and that's without such abhorrences as Scotland's Hate Crime Bill. Grief knows what will happen if the EU version of that is adopted within Europe.

I just wish - now that the debate is becoming much more mainstream, that anyone who is GC, clearly states whether they are debating women's rights, or trans rights. I am finding this increasingly frustrating. The labelling of everything as transrights skews the debate. This is about women's rights and we need to be shouting that out loud and clear, especially when posting comments in places other than MN

On what planet is the tide turning?…

We need women to be angry and to fight, not to delude themselves that it's all going to be ok.

Burningly complete agreement.

As Ms Eyelsbarrow says, the situation in Scotland is (to my mind) unthinkable to the point of insanity. Is there any sense that the whole of the populace grasps the nuances of the Hate Crime Bill and what is being perpetrated on women? Do they know what human rights are being compromised and freedoms discarded?

Look at MN and the sequestration of this issue here. From the main parts of MN, do you have any sense that women here fully understand what is happening to their rights, to safeguarding of their children, to our existence as a sex and not as a category that encompasses the whole of 'not-men' by declaration?

MN has probably taken a huge hit to their traffic but they were willing to do that to reduce the profile of this subforum. (And that was probably a wise business decision.)

I know a lot of us dig for these legal actions so it corrodes my soul when I see judgments like Bell's that have such obvious flaws and realise that this has to go to an expensive appeal. I hope Bell plus Appleby in the context of Webberley's ongoing hearing has a chilling effect in the interim, but it should not be this horrendously difficult to get judges to pay full attention to their briefs and understand the issues.

Not the teens in my sphere.

Younger people are more likely to think that TWAW because that’s what they’ve been taught /brainwashed behind the backs of their parents.

We lost the Bell judgment, but we literally couldn't have bought the publicity it received.

Politicians are going to start being asked the questions. They'd better have answers because whatever sounded good in party meetings and the LGBT+ community, refusing to define what a woman is makes you look like a twat as far as the general public are concerned.

I feel like it might not be the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning. We're getting traction - now that needs to beget movement.

Males in women's prisons is absolutely key. When something is done about that I'll feel the tide genuinely is turning.

When big business finds another hobby horse and all the endorsements and rainbows dry up, then it will start to crumble. But yes, keep fighting.

It feels as if it's hit a wall. There are a number of irreconcilables on either side (I'd count myself as one of them). Awareness is relatively high compared to a couple of years ago. And that's it. There's no shift, nowhere to go. Everybody is in their lane and nobody is moving.

It is perfectly true that the younger people are, the more likely they are to believe TWAW. So probably in 15 years when eg I'm heading for retirement, the entire thing will be a dead letter, something we reminisce about, Julie Bindel appearing on 'i love the 20s' shows on our implanted digital streamers. I'm not sure how that will come about though.

An Labour MP cannot attend Conference safely because she expressed mildly GC views. A potential LibDem MP has been indefinitely banned from standing for stating the dictionary definition of woman. Women in Scotland are about to lose all rights to single-sex spaces. TW have just competed in women's events in the Olympics. This would all have been inconceivable just a few years ago.

On what planet is the tide turning? A bit of rumbling on LBC is nothing- absolutely nothing- in comparison with what we are losing, right now.

We need women to be angry and to fight, not to delude themselves that it's all going to be ok.

R4 now - Rosie...

There was a Lib Dem MP on yesterday who when asked for the definition of women, couldn't or wouldn't answer. It's so frustrating