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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Solid hard-left article against genderwoo

65 replies

BlackForestCake · 19/09/2021 11:24

This has just come out from the Communist Party of Great Britain (not the Communist Party):

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

“Unlike traditional conservatism, trans orthodoxy does support and celebrate gender nonconformity in a small minority. But for the majority of us the story is unchanged - women are told that we are an innately submissive class, born to service men. If you are promoting trans rights orthodoxy - arguing that most female people are ‘cis’, and that being a woman is about having feminine feelings of submissiveness - you are buying liberty for only a few, while slapping chains on the rest of us.”

The CPGB only has about 30 members I think, nonetheless it is good ammunition to fire back when the "Christian right" and "fascist" smears come out.

OP posts:
futureghost · 21/09/2021 14:39

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Identity politics in general overlook the importance of class - arguably they are a deliberate distraction. I'm not suggesting a carefully planned conspiracy, but it does suit governments if people are too busy with generational/racial/gender ID conflict to focus on economic inequality
Identity politics in general overlook the importance of class Well they have to overlook it. Otherwise all those university educated middle class people would have to stare down the fact that they are totally doing over marginalised women in prisons and refuges, homeless accommodation and addiction centres. Or women with LD or english as a second language, or poor literacy/ education levels for whom health communications/ campaigns are no longer clearly written.

There is a strong class element to all this. The poorest and most vulnerable women are being really hard hit by this. But that doesn't bother Keir's labour party or momentum members. Cos its only women, innit?

LaetitiaASD · 21/09/2021 14:38

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

you would be naive to assume that it's not a badly planned conspiracy, or that the right aren't loving this

I'm prepared to believe that much of life is a badly planned conspiracy 😀

I definitely don't think that the TRA movement was cooked up by the Right in the UK, because they were just as on board with gender woo until they clocked how unpopular it is - remember Maria Miller? And there are still plenty of Tory MPs and peers who go along with it. However, I agree that the Right in the US was much faster to utilise the divisive potential of identity politics.

If you were a powerful agenda setter who leaned right you could start the whole thing off and know that some on the right would buy into it, which would encourage the left to feel that en-mass it had to buy in 100% in order to stay ahead, leaving them even further down the woo-rabbit-hole when the public started getting to grips and the idiots on the right started actually engaging their brains on the issue.

I am a firm believer that conspiracy theorists are dangerous... but that right-minded people should be constantly aware that there might be a bit of truth in some of them.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/09/2021 14:33

you would be naive to assume that it's not a badly planned conspiracy, or that the right aren't loving this

I'm prepared to believe that much of life is a badly planned conspiracy 😀

I definitely don't think that the TRA movement was cooked up by the Right in the UK, because they were just as on board with gender woo until they clocked how unpopular it is - remember Maria Miller? And there are still plenty of Tory MPs and peers who go along with it. However, I agree that the Right in the US was much faster to utilise the divisive potential of identity politics.

LaetitiaASD · 21/09/2021 14:21

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Identity politics in general overlook the importance of class - arguably they are a deliberate distraction. I'm not suggesting a carefully planned conspiracy, but it does suit governments if people are too busy with generational/racial/gender ID conflict to focus on economic inequality
I think that you're right to not suggest that it was a carefully planned conspiracy... but equally you would be naive to assume that it's not a badly planned conspiracy, or that the right aren't loving this.
Delphinium20 · 20/09/2021 18:31

I agree with everything she wrote in that article.

This really stood out to me, "Some people might see a definition of women that centres on traditional norms - on passivity and submission - as positive. Personally, I think it is an insult - possibly a deliberate one - to very many women, both alive and dead."

Freespeecher · 20/09/2021 16:51

I for one am relieved that the Gulags will not be unisex.

Next: guard, can you assure me that this cabbage soup is organic?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2021 16:44

I may be about to delete it and sod the battery saving 🙂

BlaydonRaces · 20/09/2021 16:22

Gosh that was a good read. I love how you don't need to share the writer's politics to nod vigorously along to her crystal-clear arguments (I feel the same way when I read stuff from Conservatives for Women, for example)

KittenKong · 20/09/2021 15:30

I never use the app because it looks weird!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2021 15:27

@KittenKong

How humans change sex.
Sorry Kitten. I'm on my phone and posts seem to take forever to appear, I posted that about 2 minutes after your quoted post and I don't think I saw the post above - which makes it perfectly clear what you meant!

I'm back off to Site Stuff to complain about the App again!

beastlyslumber · 20/09/2021 15:26

This has just come out from the Communist Party of Great Britain (not the Communist Party)

Sorry, just reminded me of this:

KittenKong · 20/09/2021 15:18

How humans change sex.

inigomontoyahwillcox · 20/09/2021 15:16

That is a fucking brilliant article - she's managed to communicate so eloquently and clearly what I have been trying to for eons.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2021 14:47

@KittenKong

I really want someone to show me or explain how this happens - science not emotion/feelings.
How what happens?
CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2021 14:46

Lies?

You want to label the thoughts and feelings, lived experiences and beliefs of any woman who writes clearly about how the hard edge of trans activism affects our lives as lies?

So no feelings but trans feelings?

No truths but trans truths?

That's ridiculous. Common sense and the common majority knows the truth, human beings cannot change sex.

Most women and transwomen know that for decades they operated on a basis of trust and that the current demands for what was once given freely has all but destroyed the every day lives of so many transwomen.

Five years ago I was a firm believer in TWAW, socially but not biologically. Two years ago I still believe there was an opportunity to find a compromise that would work for women and transwomen alike.

But people denouncing well written articles as lies, well educated women as witches, issuing threats to the families of said women, parading their aggression across social media has utterly altered my perspective.

Are you proud of any of that?

Do you think you are doing any transwomen a favour with your denunciations?

Do you ever consider transmen?

Maybe go and have a lie down and contemplate the damage your posts cause. You only serve to further reinforce the idea that gender ideology is utterly bereft of honesty.

Who does that damage?

With friends like you....

CreepingDeath · 20/09/2021 14:34

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Identity politics in general overlook the importance of class - arguably they are a deliberate distraction. I'm not suggesting a carefully planned conspiracy, but it does suit governments if people are too busy with generational/racial/gender ID conflict to focus on economic inequality
I agree, it is also very frustrating to constantly hear how trans people are somehow the most victimised and discriminated against, when the government well knows that childhood poverty is one of the biggest single indicators of deprivation and hardship later in life.

Many trans identified men are very privileged; white, educated, middle class, senior level etc. But somehow have identified into the most oppressed class in society Hmm.

Then again childhood poverty is a much harder societal problem to solve than giving out rainbow lanyards and parroting mantras.

It's a bit like 'gender quotas' in business, there was an article recently that stated that transwomen would be counted as women for gender quotas on management boards, which is such a lazy way of solving the problem of getting more women in C-suite positions.

It's an easy box tick for organisations who don't want to spend any time or money making an effort.

EdgeOfACoin · 20/09/2021 14:33

What lies? Tell us.

KittenKong · 20/09/2021 14:30

I really want someone to show me or explain how this happens - science not emotion/feelings.

CreepingDeath · 20/09/2021 14:28

Why do you all tell so many lies? Do you truly feel that any victory built on lies truly counts?

The only lie here is that men can somehow become women. That is a lie that has facilitated so much nonsense.

Waitwhat23 · 20/09/2021 14:18

@PumpkinSpiceWoman feeling worried? The amount of sunlight which has been shone onto the extremism of gender ideology even over the past few days is a sign that the house of cards is finally starting to come down.

PumpkinSpiceWoman · 20/09/2021 14:13

@BlackForestCake

This has just come out from the Communist Party of Great Britain (not the Communist Party):

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

“Unlike traditional conservatism, trans orthodoxy does support and celebrate gender nonconformity in a small minority. But for the majority of us the story is unchanged - women are told that we are an innately submissive class, born to service men. If you are promoting trans rights orthodoxy - arguing that most female people are ‘cis’, and that being a woman is about having feminine feelings of submissiveness - you are buying liberty for only a few, while slapping chains on the rest of us.”

The CPGB only has about 30 members I think, nonetheless it is good ammunition to fire back when the "Christian right" and "fascist" smears come out.

Why do you all tell so many lies? Do you truly feel that any victory built on lies truly counts?
BlackForestCake · 20/09/2021 14:10

Identity politics in general overlook the importance of class - arguably they are a deliberate distraction. I'm not suggesting a carefully planned conspiracy

You only have to look at what is happening today. Supermarket shelves are empty, major electricity suppliers about to go bust, NI contributions about to rise, UC to be cut, and what are the leaders of the so-called “left” talking about? Why we all need to pretend that men are women.

OP posts:
pucelleauxblanchesmains · 20/09/2021 00:43

The CPGB-ML as opposed to the plain old CPGB are gender critical too (so is the Morning Star). Traditional Marxists are I think more used to conceiving of sex classes and hierarchical oppression (plus the dislike of capitalist individualism). Unfortunately the CPGB-ML are also batshit and spend the rest of their time trying to claim Stalin and Mao did nothing wrong.

LobsterNapkin · 20/09/2021 00:37

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

This is where I find people tend to say something about politics being a horseshoe, and the hard left is the same as the alt-right.

Mmm, I can see the point when looking at, say, anarchists and libertarians, where both oppose mainstream government.

With gender politics, the similarity is between transactivists and the extreme right. Both put the individual above society. As a lifelong socialist, I could not support a movement that promotes individuals' right to identity themselves into an oppressed class, especially when their very presence there is oppressive. I don't see how any socialist could.

There are quite a few different kinds of commonalities that you can find across the political spectrum, and it's not like you can really plot it all on any kind of line, no matter what the shape. Some of them do relate to why various groups agree on some things but not others. The traditional left and traditional conservatives for example tend to be less individualistic and think in terms of relational groups and how they function together in society. Quite different from anarchists and libertarians.

The lazy part though is assuming that the supposed horseshoe means you can dismiss the far left view on an issue because similar to the alt-right.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 20/09/2021 00:13

This is where I find people tend to say something about politics being a horseshoe, and the hard left is the same as the alt-right.

Mmm, I can see the point when looking at, say, anarchists and libertarians, where both oppose mainstream government.

With gender politics, the similarity is between transactivists and the extreme right. Both put the individual above society. As a lifelong socialist, I could not support a movement that promotes individuals' right to identity themselves into an oppressed class, especially when their very presence there is oppressive. I don't see how any socialist could.

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