The judgment in Keira Bell's case will be given tomorrow

Eventually the harms caused by injecting unnecessary testosterone into a female body will become apparent but there will be a lot of damage done by then.

Experimenting with the use of cross sex hormones on adults is grim, on children it's unforgivable. No one knows the long term impacts.

I can't see medics flooding to work at the Tavi if they're at massive risk of being sued.

Unfortunately this is too late to reverse the attacks in Gillick competence for other services. Its a job well done by the Christian right who always had abortion and birth control in their sights

So I am right to assume that following this result there will now be a vigorous and clear public debate on what actually constitutes properly obtained consent in this matter? Will the doctors, who will be so very alive to various possibilities, be explaining what principles they adhere to in this?

The lawyers will smell blood. I would not want to be any of those endocrinologists who have been signing off the prescriptions.

We all know.

To celebrate the right for children to seriously damage their bodies, with little understanding of what will lie ahead, is grotesque.

This bears repeating. I find myself pondering why certain adults are so very desperate for children to not go through puberty.

Eventually the harms caused by injecting unnecessary testosterone into a female body will become apparent but there will be a lot of damage done by then.

My friend in Germany who transitioned (ftm) about 10 years ago was told to have a hysterectomy and double mastectomy because of the increased cancer risk due to taking testosterone. It's bonkers that trained doctors seem to simply ignore that.

I can only hope there's a lot more light on this than when Kiera was guided on to a medical path and so fewer young girls and boys will be permanently altered before they can really know what the implications are for lifelong sterility and loss of sexual function.

Not all sadly but Keira will have given many pause. Brave brave woman

I wonder how the clinicians are feeling about this judgement? Is this loading rather a lot of responsibility onto their shoulders?

Non Binary are the true trans people that are pushing gender norms

What a joke. Declaring they're "non-binary" as if the rest of us were walking stereotypes is not fighting gender norms.

Death is a natural and irreversible consequence of life so perhaps we should stop having children to avoid these consequences?

As mentioned on Twitter: it's not a bloody football match.

There isn't a 'win' and your team gets to get pissed tonight, yay. These are very serious issues which are not going away. The judgement has very clearly passed the buck directly to the clinicians.

In the case of this apparently fine system which failed Keira, who is living proof that it's not all beautifully reversible and consequence free, and young adults DO need deeper investigation and less invasive, permanent treatment options, and that a yes at the time is not always a permanent yes...

the answer is 'go sue your clinician'.

Ok. Form an orderly queue.

Can somebody please explain to me why grown men are perfectly able to keep their dicks intact and we are supposed to view them as women, just because they say so - but young people (girls mostly) are being rushed into hormones and surgery as fast as possible because it's apparently the only way to resolve their distress.

Well.

Because the argument for contraception was about practical issues and protecting children from the greater harm perhaps

These are highly personal and individual decisions. To answer your question, Gender identity is different from gender expression. How we present ourselves to the world is totally down to an individual.

A child should never be allowed to do something irreversible and before you come to me saying puberty blockers aren’t reversible or have negative effects, a voice breaking, or puberty happening is much more irreversible.

Genuinely don't give a shit about gloating.

It's the inability to answer questions pointing out apparent glaring contradictions that stands out.
(sex and gender are separate concepts and you may be given different ones! Yet they can also in some way be 'congruent' and completely match)

Over and over and over.
Refusal to engage with what's asked, what's said.

I wonder to what extent individuals' online history will be taken into account in future court cases? Their membership of online communities and conversation threads had within them, the age-appropriateness of the conversations, older people coaching children into the words to use when seeing a GP and so on. This week we had the well-I-never findings about the impact of Instagram on the mental health of teenage girls which did make me wonder about the possibility of tobacco or asbestos style class actions against various social media platforms down the line.

and will be needed before the night out, my fellow MNers. I predict an influx of new posters coming to gloat over their perceived win.

Can somebody please explain to me why grown men are perfectly able to keep their dicks intact and we are supposed to view them as women, just because they say so - but young people (girls mostly) are being rushed into hormones and surgery as fast as possible because it's apparently the only way to resolve their distress.

I could, but it'd get deleted.

I see the gloaters have arrived.

It is a shame the gloating fraction are so close minded. No one is asking for transgender children not to get treatment, but that experimental drugs is not the first port of call. But this message is not acceptable to them as the gloaters cannot pathom anyone thinking differently about this complicated topic.

And wow, the trust placed in doctors not to get caught up in political lobbying. Very naive at best. Wonder if Keira is brave enough to sue for damages.

How can I do an FOI of the endocrinologists who the kids are being referred to? Does anyone know if they're part of the Tavistock or some other trust?

I want to know the reasons for children being rejected for puberty blockers. Because, I'd wager good money the reasons (if there are any) are all to do with physical health concerns, and not to do with any underlying reasons for their gender dysphoria or desire to transition.