The GC what now? Are we the cult?

Sorry I'm not sure what the protocol with superheroes is.

Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, the whole lot of them. Am I walking into a politically correct nightmare if I get it wrong?

Funnily enough no one likes to talk about the left wing roots and continuing traditions of the GC movement in the UK. Its a bit inconvenient.

There have been numberous voices (I think Lisa Muggeridge was one of the first) who made the point that at some point if the left wing political parties alienated the working classes who were concerned about issues surrounding males in women's spaces and safety - and they felt their voices were not listened to then, there would be a pattern like in many northern town were there had been child gangs were far right groups moved in to full the void because the left had failed to safe guard women and girls.

So strangely enough there have been many gender critical voices warning that as this became and comes to become a more mainstream issue, that the general public will become aware of scandals and problems which have been shoved under the carpet because safeguarding is an inconvenience and transphobic.

The whole point about much of the GC movement in the UK is that it feels politically homeless - betrayed by the left and pushed down and ignored by the right. So they have to crowd source as a result.

But never let the truth get in the way of a good meme.

Anyway... off to hobbycraft where maybe I can find someone with more incite into British Politics than some numpty on the internet who doesn't know how much it rains in Manchester and has problems with google.

given you're busy in campaigns to take away my dignity and human rights, deal with it.

Two things:

1. You're talking utter, unmitigated bollocks
2. There is HUGE push by transactivists to take away the dignity and human rights of women

What about if a child lists themselves as Spiderman?

I would suggest it is not very strong if you're so willing to hand that away to some stranger on the internet.

Interesting point, arabella.

barheim, I expect that somewhere in the core of your beliefs is the desire and expectation that other people must share your own view of yourself- that they ought to validate you, endorse your sense of self and your identity as true and authentic- in order that you can live your life happily.

That’s quite a lot of power to give to other people, isn’t it? Don’t you think that a really happy, stable sense of self is built from within?

It’s brought you to the point of coming to a board that you think is hostile to your beliefs in order to berate the users there for not sharing your exact view of the world. It’s not reasonable or rational to expect everyone to share your beliefs, and good societies aren’t built by everyone thinking exactly they same- we really do need diversity.

In your opinion, would their be a way to disagree with your conception of being trans that would be legitimate?

When I talk about 'children being trans', I talk about children who list themselves as trans who call and have to deal with some unlicensed therapist who can 'cure' them from it. I've no interest in your 'descriptions'.

I have never seen a MNer support any unlicensed therapist treating a child or young person or anyone. You have been reading these threads long enough, so if you have seen this, please do point it out.

Or are you referring to the fact that many of us want the best health for our children and young people and if that means finding qualified health professionals who don’t follow the affirming only treatment plan advocated by some, that we are trying to ‘cure’ them.

Do you fully believe that every child that ‘lists’ themselves as trans need affirming only treatment or is there just cause to discover and treat all underlying issues as well. Even if that might mean that young person’s discomfort resolves itself (or does that mean they were never trans even though they ‘listed’ themselves as trans)?

@Barheim We sure do suck at it, then, considering that 77% of trans people, going by our gender, aren't straight

That really, really, sounds homophobic, doesn't it? Is it acceptable for heterosexual people to appropriate lesbian or gay status?

"Going by our gender" but also

To be honest, Eko

I like the rain.

When I talk about 'children being trans', I talk about children who list themselves as trans who call and have to deal with some unlicensed therapist who can 'cure' them from it. I've no interest in your 'descriptions'.

Thanks for replying @Barheim, but I still don't understand what sort of children you are talking about. Now you say 'children who list themselves as trans'. What does this mean? Who are these children and what makes them 'list themselves as trans'? You say it is none of the categories listed in my previous post, but you don't say what it is that makes them identify as transgender.

In my earlier post I quoted a gender dysphoria website which listed 5 possible reasons for people (not just children) identifying as transgender. You say it is none of those. As my earlier post is now way back in the thread I'll repeat what the 5 categories were:

1. Autogynephilia
2. Internalised homophobia
3. Concrete thinking processes (often in people on the autistic spectrum)
4. Sexual trauma
5. Conflation of sex and gender (dislike of stereotypes)

You have said you believe it is none of these. In that case, what makes a child 'trans'? What is it you think a therapist might be trying to 'cure'?

Don't move to Cardiff.

How the fuck would a UK woman be campaigning to take away your dignity and human rights?

You are the owner of your dignity. I have neither the power, ability nor desire to have anything to do with your dignity, but I would suggest it is not very strong if you're so willing to hand that away to some stranger on the internet.

As for human rights - the day I move to the US and get voting rights is ... well, it's not going to happen. What is it you want from UK feminists? Why are you here? I am asking that in good faith, btw, I am not hostile. Just a bit tired.

It just feels like 350.

Also, how can a group of users discussing feminism on a UK site “take away your dignity”? How does one person take someone else’s dignity from thousands of miles away behind a computer screen?

Users here are happy to talk to you, like arabella said, but it’s off to a bad start with the vast swathes of misrepresentation in your posts (did you know, by the way that “sweeping generalisations” are against forum rules? Nobody will report you, I wouldn’t think, but it’s good to acknowledge privilege, isn’t it? And you are being afforded privilege here, make no mistake. A gender critical poster posting as aggressively as you are would expect to be deleted).

I am finding it funny that posters have chosen Posie as leader. Really?

The fact that there is no group and no individual that stands out to speak for all is a sure sign that there is no cult.

Kellie-Jay is soundly denounced by many while being applauded by others. I admire her, but I find some of the way she expresses her opinions to be affected by her platform of speaking from the hip unscripted and not clear. And some of her opinions I completely disagree with. Do I think she is a leader of our alleged cult, no way?

So if you cannot find a person or group who has positioned themselves to speak for all, just acknowledge that there is none and your justification is full so full of holes and spin it could be a salad spinner.

The case is active and therefore subject to sub-judice.

You can mention the name of the accused, and the charges, but not the names of the allegedly injured parties, the actor and the police officer. Nor can you say that MM is guilty/not guilty or comment on the veracity or otherwise of the parties.

Ah, is this finally at least an admission that what your views are transphobic, as opposed to the continuous 'I'm not transphobic, I just think trans people should be lawfully segregated in society'?

Propaganda: information of a biased and misleading nature used to promote a political view.

Admission of transphobia: that wasn't stated. The statement was how would you view it is someone would be charged with hate speech for misogyny. Nowhere is there an admission that the person that is currently accused of transphobia is guilty of that accusation, but by framing it as the admission it isn't, you can accuse people again of being the bad ones.

Trans people lawfully segregated: that is not what is stated. Where there is sex segregation we want that sex segregation to stand regardless of someone's gender reassignment status. So trans people fully part of society with no extra rights or privileges.

Propaganda.

Barheim has a point about the rain. I will concede that point.

Google is a wonderful thing really.

when you think no one else is reading

Arf. Perfectly aware that this place is heavily monitored and users are targeted.

When has a gender critical feminist sexually harassed a trans man? And why?

If you want to comment of British political issues it helps to know about the differences between British and American culture, their political systems and legal systems and traditions of political protest.

And have a general clue about how to find things out from places other than 'someone told me on reddit'.

I know research is a little taxing on the brain but its worth while. Thinking has had bad pr lately but i can assure you that those of us in the embroidery aisle heartly recommend it.

I used 'transes' because gender critical people go after all trans people.

You're not posting in good faith and your hyperbole is ridiculous. This is the problem with this whole debate. There's no discussion or recognition that there might be conflicting rights. Just the usual hyperbole and overblown nonsense.

And I take it this is a 'sly' dig at Scottish people? 'It'd be littering even before the 350 days of rain a year you get.' Do get a grip.

I am calm. I'm also hostile, but given you're busy in campaigns to take away my dignity and human rights, deal with it.

I will not further discuss her court case as I'm unaware of the details of what is considered contempt of court

By god are you well informed... Try google.

Whispers - its not that type of court case. No one is on trial and its pretty damn public