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Original poster

I’m still stewing

56 replies

MordenLarch · 15/09/2021 22:32

Longish one - apologies in advance.

So several months ago we had an (online only due to restrictions at the time) event at work.

There were talks about women in the field I’m in. After the talks there was an online ‘board’ where we were invited to add the names of women we find inspiring and why.

Lots of people wrote their female family members and inspirational female public figures.

I wrote a variety of women I find inspirational and reasons why. I then wrote JK Rowling for standing up for women’s rights. I then thought ‘fuck it’ and put Kathleen Stock, Allison Bailey and Helen Joyce etc.

I thought no more about it, but then saw later that my JK Rowling had been removed (along with a JK that had been added by someone else). Helen Joyce etc weren’t removed presumably because no one knew who they were.

Even though there was nothing even vaguely contentious I’d written, i heard later that my comments on the board were deleted as they were a “transphobic dog whistle” and potentially very offensive etc etc / unsafe space etc

Apparently JK Rowling was permissible on the board only as long as her writing was referenced. Some of the organisers’ suggested inspirational women pictured on the board included the one off Orange Is The New Black and Munroe Bergdorf. I find that offensive as the latter has said some very objectionable things about gay people on the past (and the rest, which is an obvious point about womanhood I probably can’t say here).

Anyway, we will soon have a staff survey coming up where I can probably mention how ridiculous this whole thing is and how I find it sexist, offensive, 1984-esque etc. Should I bother, or let it go? With this and several other things I feel like I’m up against an impermeable wall of guano at the moment

OP posts:
Chloemol · 16/09/2021 12:14

Yes mention it. And I would also mention how upsetting others were not removed who in fact are even more offensive

I would also mention this is a free country, our thoughts are ours, and we should not be dictated to over who we should find inspirational

PlanDeRaccordement · 16/09/2021 12:13

I like JK Rowling fine, I just think she’s not someone who will be remembered for furthering women’s rights fifty years from now. Even now most people who know of her know her as the SAHM who wrote children’s books and made a bunch of money.

However, it’s not about who you like or are allowed to like, it’s about the fact your entire list of women you posted as “inspirational” are all mired in current and ongoing political controversy and law suits. It was a dog whistle to list those names on a board where all the other participants were listing noncontroversial figures.

PlanDeRaccordement · 16/09/2021 12:07

@DismantledKing
That comes from quite the place of privilege. I think that her political activity is very important and resonant still.

WTAF are you getting at? That’s why I listed her as an inspirational woman that I would list if asked the question the OP was.

beguilingeyes · 16/09/2021 12:05

What the hell is political about JKR?

I still don't see how she's transphobic at all. She's no longer a billionaire because she's given so much away and proudly pays her full tax in this country.

I think that's pretty inspiring.

viques · 16/09/2021 12:01

@Gottalife

Such a shame. I mean you could have had chosen real heros like Ellen MacArthur, Amy Johnson or Marie Curie. Instead you got all political and may have given yourself a negative reputation.
Indeed. All great and inspiring women. Two of whom did their inspiring last century.

Come on women of the world, unite and inspire , don’t rest on the laurels of dead women’s efforts, oh, hold on a minute ................

Intimissimi · 16/09/2021 11:55

You most definitely should bother.
Micro aggressions left unchallenged allow actual aggressions to become harder to challenge.
As someone suggested up thread, perhaps respond with quotes from both JKR and MB.
It's not for anyone else to police who we find inspiring and why.

DismantledKing · 16/09/2021 11:40

Unless people like the OP push back against this bullshit in the workplace, then it will continue to spread. Stonewall aren’t afraid to ‘get political’ in the workplace, which is why they’ve captured so much of the narrative.

Original poster
MordenLarch · 16/09/2021 11:37

@Gottalife

Such a shame. I mean you could have had chosen real heros like Ellen MacArthur, Amy Johnson or Marie Curie. Instead you got all political and may have given yourself a negative reputation.
Oh look. Another prescribed list of people it’s OK to like. Thanks.
OP posts:
Original poster
MordenLarch · 16/09/2021 11:36

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@DismantledKing
Yes, but she’s been dead for over 200yrs, so hardly part of politics today.[/quote]
So what’s the cut off then? 10 years? 5 years? More?

Sounds like you just don’t like JK Rowling. That’s fine

OP posts:
Original poster
MordenLarch · 16/09/2021 11:34

I wrote that I thought JK was inspirational for standing up for women’s rights - that was all.

So we’re not allowed to find women inspirational in human rights or politics? Sounds like patronising twaddle to me. Women, know your place.

Is Munroe Bergdorf OK then?

OP posts:
DismantledKing · 16/09/2021 11:31

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@DismantledKing
Yes, but she’s been dead for over 200yrs, so hardly part of politics today.[/quote]
That comes from quite the place of privilege. I think that her political activity is very important and resonant still.

PlanDeRaccordement · 16/09/2021 11:29

@DismantledKing
Yes, but she’s been dead for over 200yrs, so hardly part of politics today.

DismantledKing · 16/09/2021 11:27

@PlanDeRaccordement

I agree with *@Gottalife* there is no good reason to bring politics into the workplace. I would have listed women like Mary Wollstonecraft, Ada Lovelace, Wang Zenyi, Harriet Tubman, etc.

As for the “anonymous” staff survey, no such thing exists. Yes they don’t put your name by your comment, but they’ll be able to identify you all the same.

Harriet Tubman was literally a political activist
PlanDeRaccordement · 16/09/2021 11:24

I agree with @Gottalife there is no good reason to bring politics into the workplace. I would have listed women like Mary Wollstonecraft, Ada Lovelace, Wang Zenyi, Harriet Tubman, etc.

As for the “anonymous” staff survey, no such thing exists. Yes they don’t put your name by your comment, but they’ll be able to identify you all the same.

DismantledKing · 16/09/2021 11:22

@Gottalife

Such a shame. I mean you could have had chosen real heros like Ellen MacArthur, Amy Johnson or Marie Curie. Instead you got all political and may have given yourself a negative reputation.
‘Got all political’? Hmm
FrancescaContini · 16/09/2021 11:21

@Gottalife

Such a shame. I mean you could have had chosen real heros like Ellen MacArthur, Amy Johnson or Marie Curie. Instead you got all political and may have given yourself a negative reputation.
Eh??

She’s allowed to find whoever she wants inspirational! If she had been asked for inspirational women WITHIN the field of sports or science or whatever, then JKR would have been simply irrelevant.

PS love the “thick virtuous” mentioned upthread 😆

Gottalife · 16/09/2021 11:16

Such a shame. I mean you could have had chosen real heros like Ellen MacArthur, Amy Johnson or Marie Curie. Instead you got all political and may have given yourself a negative reputation.

Original poster
MordenLarch · 16/09/2021 10:29

Thanks all. Yes I find it incredibly dispiriting and ridiculous. I think there might be a “non-binary” person at work that they were worried about.

It’s like a game of Top Trumps it seems. Trans trumps gay and lesbian, and everything trumps woman.

It was a woman who removed the JK as well which makes it all the more stupid.

OP posts:
NewMutiny · 16/09/2021 09:39

You're...not allowed to decide who you find inspiring? Shock

Whoah!

I've lived my whole life with people telling me that Thatcher is an inspiring woman. Personally I think she's Satan. So are they just wrong? Or do different people inspire others in different ways? And actually that's OK!

Thelnebriati · 16/09/2021 09:33

i heard later that my comments on the board were deleted as they were a “transphobic dog whistle” and potentially very offensive etc etc / unsafe space etc

That's the part to focus on. You can ask what evidence was given to support the claim.
Remember that the Equality Act states it is an offence to harass or victimise someone, based on their protected characteristic.

OperationDessertStorm · 16/09/2021 09:20

An anonymous staff survey?

I would avoid referring to anything that might be outing but I would try to mention something - Would it be worth the staniland question? Or something sports or prisons. Something really obvious.

I think people haven’t even noticed the dots, let alone started to connect them.

ArabellaScott · 16/09/2021 08:53

Some quotes from Rowling and some quotes from Bergdorf might be interesting to have side by side.

Babdoc · 16/09/2021 08:07

Email management and ask them what defence they have to a charge of slandering/libelling JKR. Challenge them to produce a single transphobic line from her essay defending women’s rights.
Then point out the fucking irony of them smearing an inspirational women’s role model at an event discussing…. inspirational women role models.

LizzieSiddal · 16/09/2021 07:34

Go for it. Could you use the Maya judgement as an example of having legal backup for JK’s views?

Deliriumoftheendless · 16/09/2021 07:28

JK Rowling has a charity that supports women and girls so I would’ve thought that makes her a contender for the list.

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