Husband thinks I'm transphobic

I'll rephrase it. As a dad with a DD it really hit home with me when I considered how I would feel when my DD reaches age 7-8 and is expected to use her own swimming changing room if I saw transwomen go in too.

I would really struggle with this.
Shared values are very important to me.

97-99% of convicted sex offenders in the UK are male and over 80% of their victims are female.

Lots and LOTS of men have absolutely no idea of this pretty stark statistic. I know several (lovely, kind, good) men who have been utterly taken aback to find out that no, men and women don't offend equally.

Have you pointed out to him this also means that he thinks that men get periods?

Ask him if he thinks there are good reasons for having separate facilities for men and women. Toilets? Changing rooms? Sports categories? Prisons? Should we abolish them? If not, why not?

I am in a similar situation with my daughter. In her case, her age, the university she attended etc, shaped her views. We have talked about it, but agreed to let it go.

With your husband it sounds as if it's his left-wing politics that is the stumbling block. Plus not really understanding what it's like to live as a female-bodied person, despite having a wife and daughter.

The Morning Star is quite good on the materiality of oppression.

But in some ways, I do think beyond signposting some helpful resources there is really not a lot one can do when people 'identify' with a set of beliefs for reasons that are non-rational. It is extremely painful to distance oneself from one's friends/comrades etc. I am about to leave a group I have been part of for ten years, because my views that sex is binary have been termed 'ridiculous' by another member and absolutely no one has spoken up to say my views are reasonable.

In most marriages there are areas of difference - Brexit has been divisive. I suppose as with my daughter the point is to understand why he needs to think as he does. It would be useful if he could respect your viewpoint. On the other hand if he doesn't, the best thing is to say that it's something you've thought about a lot and that your views are unlikely to change. You'll have to agree to differ.

[quote plesiosaurus]@NonnyMouse1337 That seems a sensible route to take. He did say that it's obviously not "normal" men who become trans women![/quote]
Ask him what he means by normal. Rather than you telling him your views, it's better to ask him questions to draw out his thought processes. As people are asked to actually articulate their views, sometimes this causes them to see the flaws in their own arguments.

As Arabella says, step back and give each other space. Try to get him to agree that respect and tolerance of each other's views is important. He's been with you long enough to know you are not a bad person.

If a girl buys a pair of mens shorts, and cuts her hair short, and says she identifies as male, does she actually have a clue what it means to be a boy or a man? In fact scrap the shorts and the hair cut because we all agree they are not gender signifiers don't we? Why should men let her into a men's mental health group, a male sauna session or a mens football team?

'He said that it's wrong to mistrust all men, and if he said that he mistrusted all women I'd accuse him of misogyny.'

Urgh, the reeking male privilege that he can't see the difference between these two things.

@Antinerak

Well obviously he's right

Do you think it is acceptable for a naked male with a semi erect penis to get into a spa with a naked 9 year old in a spa in a female only spa area?

Do you think it is acceptable for a naked male with a semi erect penis who has several prior sex offences to get into a spa with a naked 9 year old in a spa in a female only spa area?

It's very easy for people such as your husband, for whom these issues are unlikely to affect, to say that you're being unreasonable. Is there a massive push for transmen to use men's toilets, to be placed in the male prison estate, to compete against men in sporting competitions? Are straight men being called transphobic because they wouldn't sleep with transmen? No, they're not. So it doesn't affect them.

It's very easy to say 'be kind' when it doesn't affect you

'He said that it's wrong to mistrust all men, and if he said that he mistrusted all women I'd accuse him of misogyny.'

Ask your DH if he'd revoke all safeguarding laws, as the above implies that. It's not about the individual, as we are saying constantly here, but about classes of people who may present a danger to other classes of people - I am a 60+ year old woman, and I therefore belong to a very low-offending group of people. However, if I want to read with the children in my DGD primary school I have to be vetted. I accept that, as an adult, I may pose a theoretical threat to children.

Depending on what you read, 97-99% of convicted sex offenders in the UK are male and over 80% of their victims are female. Clearly, one class posing a threat to another class of person. So we place boundaries around what is and what is not acceptable. Or at least we used to.

I wonder how he'd answer that.

“Of course TWAW dear which is why I know that you don’t at all object to the transgirl in DD’s class staying in her room overnight on the school trip. I know you’ve previously said they couldn’t share a room but as she’s a girl like any other now it won’t be a problem at all will it? It’s not like DD would get pregnant by accident if they do a bit of teenage exploring and experimenting because they’re both girls after all.”

And let him either tie himself in knots explaining it or be a hypocrite and demonstrate why, in fact, TW are not literally women in every singe sense and at all times.

Actually, I think stepping back and giving a bit of space and maybe rather than discussing the issues involved directly, having the sort of wider argument, about how we should respect each other and be courteous and tolerant of other views etc is maybe best.

Try the Socratic approach.

Ask him what a woman is.

Ask him what a transwoman is.

Try and work out what his views actually are.

Or, as Nonny suggests above, avoid the topic for a bit. When someone is that entrenched in their faith-based beliefs it can be very hard to discuss with them. He's painted you as 'the enemy' and this can lead to 'othering' and v strongly defended views.

So he doesn't think TWAW... just that it doesn't matter when it doesn't affect him. Which is the majority of the time.

I bet he wouldn't date or have sex with a transwoman. Easy for blokes to say TWAW but they would never actually live by it because they know transwomen aren't actually women.

Families can disagree bitterly on all sorts of issues. Most people haven't thought through the implications and aren't aware of the realities of such issues because they have only ever read media sources that push a very positive, rosy picture. It makes it easy to jump to knee jerk reactions and slurs.

It's upsetting to hear your husband say these things, but for many people it takes a while for them to change their mind. Many of us started from the position of what's the harm, be kind, only bigots would be opposed and so on. But over time, doubts and questions can start to make an impact.

Avoid the topic as much as possible. It's tempting to want to discuss all of it in depth, but it can put people off. Find an angle that is most likely to appeal to your husband and focus on that. For most men, the sports angle is the easiest to understand. So forget about all the other stuff for now and maybe once in a while mention something about sports.

Sometimes it's really effective to focus on tangential topics. Talk about how hard women have worked to gain their own sports. Talk about the physical and biological differences between men and women. Have you seen the picture of the British swimmers at the Olympics? The men and women were side by side and the sex differences were amazing. All were elite athletes but the men's bodies and women's bodies were so different.
Also the video of the Olympic relay race that had mixed sex runners. All teams except one started with a female runner and finished with a male runner. But the one team decided to start with a male runner and finish with a female runner. The results were amazing. As expected at the start, the team with the male runner was way ahead of the women and the woman on his team was ahead of the men runners. But in the second half of the race, the men caught up so quickly and the woman was left trailing behind. Really profound example of the differences in male and female bodies.

Little things here and there. Agree to disagree for now and avoid getting into arguments. Lightly touch on topics that stimulate questions.
Maybe even order the new Testosterone book and suggest your husband reads it. It has nothing to do with trans issues, although it briefly touches on it as part of the effects on hormones on the body. That might be a better angle to start with as it isn't focused on trans people but rather the physical differences between women and men in general.

What is his definition of 'woman'?

Why does he, a man, get to define (assuming he can) the meaning of 'woman' over his wife, who actually is one?

Does he understand why we have safeguarding? Would he be offended by having a DBS check for a new job?

Does he understand class analysis?

Well obviously he's right

Once your husband actually takes the time to look in to the issues he'll probably agree with you.

Ask him lots of questions, ideally things that will make him do his own research.

At this point he may not even realise that the vast majority of transwomen have a penis. Understanding that simple fact might help him to understand why women and children will feel uncomfortable, if not frightened, in shared changing rooms etc.

re the muslim / terrorist line, Maajid Nawaz is an expert who doesn't agree with your husband. This is Maajid Nawaz's monologue on the issue of transgender and transracial self-identification. twitter.com/lbc/status/1301887036111179777