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Original poster

Judge is sad paedophile won't be able to keep his job as a midwife

139 replies

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/09/2021 01:47

A man was found to have hundreds of child abuse images, along with porn showing strangulation, and images showing sexual abuse of animals. He escaped a custodial sentence after his partner stood by him and wrote a letter to the judge defending him.

So far, not unusual.

But this bit is. Judge's comments:
'This is a real tragedy for so many people,' he said.

'You qualified as a midwife and will never be able to work in this role again.

It is a shame, not just for yourself but for the community as a whole as I understand there is a desperate shortage of midwives.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9989159/amp/Male-midwife-39-caught-stash-400-indecent-images-children.html

This judge thinks potential patients (women and newborn babies) are losing out on this man's services? The tragedy is that he was not caught sooner, and I feel very sorry for all women treated by him before now. If they had had an informed choice in the matter, they would not have wanted a man who masturbated to the torture of children, doing the new baby checks on their babies.

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 15/09/2021 21:36

The male surgeon who did my c-section was wonderful. I didn't get a choice but I lucked out with him. He was an experienced and well-regarded surgeon and I'm sure he felt that in his training,he'd better know how to do emergency c-sections.

However, why would a man choose to be a midwife? I don't get it and I don't trust those who do. It's not general care where sometimes you need to attend to a pregnant woman, it's only women and only pregnancy - exclusively female experiences. In my country, it also pays less.

pecanmix · 15/09/2021 21:10

What the FUCK

LobsterNapkin · 15/09/2021 21:07

@VeryLongBeeeeep

Well they aren't mutually exclusive statements.

A child abuse image could be anything that shows a child being abused. Pornography means it's sexual images produced to be used for sexual purposes.

Many people think all pornography is abusive, it's still pornography.

The term I see most frequently used rather than CP is "images of child sexual abuse" or "images of CSA".

The reaction against calling it 'child porn' is because while the whole pornography industry is rife with abuse, coercion, rape, trafficking etc, it is still theoretically possible that any given piece of adult pornography could be consensual. However that involving children can never be consensual as children can't consent to sex, so it is always an image of a child or children being abused. It's an important distinction to make, IMO.

Yeah, I understand the rational, but I don't think it's true, useful, or helpful.

The term pornography has zero connotations that it must be consensual. Even the worst kind of images of women being beaten and murdered still counts as pornography if it's intended for sexual purposes.

It comes off as policing speech for the sake of it, or to imply that somehow others don't take it as seriously as the person trying to correct them.

Jellycatspyjamas · 15/09/2021 21:01

Nope, I couldn’t

Original poster
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/09/2021 21:00

@grey12

Am I a heartless person for saying I wouldn't stand by my DH if he did something like this?! Hmm or anyone else for that matter
Absolutely not heartless!
OP posts:
grey12 · 15/09/2021 20:58

Am I a heartless person for saying I wouldn't stand by my DH if he did something like this?! Hmm or anyone else for that matter

Original poster
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/09/2021 20:56

"I told him I'd leave him if he did it again and he said he wouldn't. So now you don't need to send him to prison!"

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 15/09/2021 20:54

Rather than reflecting well on him it should really reflect poorly on her.

Personally I wouldn’t want her helping me give birth/caring for my baby knowing she stands in support of this man.

Kanaloa · 15/09/2021 20:54

It is an odd choice. Different if she could give some proof that he hadn’t done it or something but it’s literally just ‘yes he committed these atrocities but he’s a wonderful guy in the opinion of me, his partner.’

Original poster
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/09/2021 20:04

It makes no sense to me. It's absurd- like putting the family members of a defendant in the jury, and seeing if they deliver a not guilty verdict!

She's his partner and has chosen to continue having a relationship with him. Of course she doesn't want him to go to prison. You might as well ask him whether he should go to prison.

OP posts:
FlyingOink · 15/09/2021 20:01

It is time that men working in professions where they have access to vulnerable children and women automatically get a custodial sentence for sex crimes.
This makes sense. It shows either a degree of premeditation, or, if you accept that some sex crime convictions are "he said, she said" (I don't but the public at large seems to) then you could argue that someone in a privileged role like that should hold themselves to higher standards, and should avoid putting themselves in questionable situations.
A bit like how we expect better behaviour from off-duty coppers on the piss than other groups of blokes, and we prefer to see crimes, sexual or not, committed by police officers to be dealt with more harshly.
A man in a role like that has to be held to a higher standard because he has far more opportunity than say, a roofer or a shopkeeper.

Is it not still the case that teachers can be prosecuted for sex with 16-18 year olds in their care? That's enough precedent I think.

Thelnebriati · 15/09/2021 19:34

He escaped a custodial sentence after his partner stood by him and wrote a letter to the judge defending him.

How is this possible? We all know that abusers groom other adults to facilitate them; and that some people don't need grooming.

HotPenguin · 15/09/2021 18:51

I think the judge's comments are partly about deterring other people by pointing out it can end your career.

Owlhandbag · 15/09/2021 18:40

I tend to agree with @AliceMorrow, but I think this man should have a custodial sentence. Despicable.
I wonder what constitutes a letter of support in these circumstances.
I feel sickened and angry that this man has entered my profession. How dare he?

Theworldishard · 15/09/2021 18:27

Omg that comment made me cross.

Unfortunate for WHO?

no woman would want to be treated by him

It was a stupid comment

DaisiesandButtercups · 15/09/2021 18:26

Factors reducing the likelihood of caesarean birth

1.3.1 Inform women that continuous support during labour from women, with or without prior training, reduces the likelihood of caesarean birth. [2004]

N0N4M3 · 15/09/2021 18:09

I'm going to make a complaint about the sentence. It may be that it won't be accepted as I can see that only some sex crimes against children are covered.
[email protected]

I'm just copying and pasting this to increase the chance that anyone skimming the thread sees it. The more people that complain about this, the better.

Original poster
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/09/2021 18:05

Talking of that, Jellycatspyjamas, one of the roles of midwives in antenatal care, leading up to the highly personal birth part, is building a rapport with pregnant women so that they can signpost women to other services if relevant, like domestic violence support.

It's been claimed before that domestic violence kills more pregnant women each year than any other cause. Nearly 20% of women experience violence during pregnancy, with pregnant adolescents and women with unintended pregnancies at an increased risk.

according to vawnet.org/material/fact-sheet-domestic-violence-and-pregnancy

Will women subjected to domestic violence from a male partner feel less able to disclose violence to a male midwife?

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 15/09/2021 17:32

Some female midwives don't have experience of giving birth either.

No they haven’t, but they will almost undoubtedly had experience of feeling vulnerable during an intimate examination, will know what it’s like to be a woman in society with the structural and patriarchal disadvantages that brings, they will have a sense of needing choice and control over their bodies and having that choice and control undermined. Given the statistics around male aggression and violence towards women and the endemic sexualisation of society more generally a female midwife has a much better chance of having experienced lack of control over their own bodies than a man would.

I’m not saying female midwives always get it right, but they’re starting from the common experience of being a woman with all that that entails.

Original poster
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/09/2021 17:24

I'm very uncomfortable about this focus on whether men go into midwifery because they want to help.

That's a bit of a self-centred thing, isn't it? The focus should not be on satisfying your own desire to help, but on whether your support will be beneficial to the recipient.

Midwifery is a job where you see and touch women's genitals at a very vulnerable, painful point in their lives. An unknown number of labouring women in a maternity unit will have been subjected to sexual abuse from people with male body shapes. Some of them will be there because they were raped as recently as nine months ago, and their baby is the result of rape. And some of them will be trying to manage the emotional effects of sexual violence while not admitting to themselves that it was rape. Which means they are not in a good position to advocate for their own needs at all, and won't be able to just say "I'm a rape survivor and I need a female midwife".

I'd rather like to be a midwife too because I'd enjoy supporting women. But, crucially, I know I have the personality of a sleep-deprived hedgehog, and I doubt many women would feel supported by me!

I'd also like to support women after FGM, because I feel passionately about that. But I will always be an outsider to that issue. My support wouldn't be supportive! So I simply donate to support the women who can perform that role effectively. I rather wonder about people who centre their wish to help over the recipients' welfare. People in need of support don't exist to meet your own vocational needs.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 15/09/2021 17:24

It would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Nursery staff or early years teachers, nurses, gynecologists, GPs, paramedics...

The line was already drawn under the concept of Genuine Operational Requirement which allowed recruitment of one or other sex on the basis that their sex mattered. This allowed women’s organisations to appoint women only to posts which support vulnerable and traumatised women. Of course once someone decided that “woman” means anyone in a dress, the GOR became pretty useless but it does indicate that someone somewhere recognised the need to provide single sex services and that a line could easily be drawn to facilitate that.

GOR hasn’t, to my knowledge, stopped men becoming GPs, teachers, early years practitioners - the idea that it can’t be done because “slippery slope” is ridiculous.

IntermittentParps · 15/09/2021 17:04

LobsterNapkin
It would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Nursery staff or early years teachers, nurses, gynecologists, GPs, paramedics...

Yes, exactly. Slippery slope.

VeryLongBeeeeep · 15/09/2021 16:56

Well they aren't mutually exclusive statements.

A child abuse image could be anything that shows a child being abused. Pornography means it's sexual images produced to be used for sexual purposes.

Many people think all pornography is abusive, it's still pornography.

The term I see most frequently used rather than CP is "images of child sexual abuse" or "images of CSA".

The reaction against calling it 'child porn' is because while the whole pornography industry is rife with abuse, coercion, rape, trafficking etc, it is still theoretically possible that any given piece of adult pornography could be consensual. However that involving children can never be consensual as children can't consent to sex, so it is always an image of a child or children being abused. It's an important distinction to make, IMO.

LobsterNapkin · 15/09/2021 16:40

@IntermittentParps

You're on a bit of a sticky wicket if you start disbarring one sex from certain jobs though.
It would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Nursery staff or early years teachers, nurses, gynecologists, GPs, paramedics...
LobsterNapkin · 15/09/2021 16:37

[quote TheWoleb]@LemonSwan
There is no such thing as child porn. They are child abuse images.[/quote]
Well they aren't mutually exclusive statements.

A child abuse image could be anything that shows a child being abused. Pornography means it's sexual images produced to be used for sexual purposes.

Many people think all pornography is abusive, it's still pornography.