LGBT+ hitching their cause to autism and neurodiversity

When people say link between autism and mental illness.

Sorry just checking.

Is it about those with autism having MH issues due to their experiences in society etc?

Or is there a suggestion that autism can be caused by mental illness?

Or what exactly?

Those who are seriously impacted by autism have very clear and disabling symptoms. Nothing to do with mental health.

That really needs to be stressed.

The spectrum thing gets imo a bit tricky. The language thrown around to dismiss/excuse certain behaviour 'oh don't worry about him he's a bit autistic'. Happens a lot in my work. Or maybe he's just not very nice? Easier to say oh a bit autistic which is frankly meaningless.

A thread on here about it I recognised a fair bit that resonated and explained some stuff. But then. Who is to say what a 'normal' brain is?

I think we know very very little about how different people think, experience the world etc. Everything seems to be based against some standard decided how?

Eg I have aphantasia. Only found out what it was on here a couple years back. I was. Wow! I had no idea. How can anyone have any idea that things like that are different? You have zero idea how it is in anyone else's head.

But apparently 1 in 20 have aphantasia. So really it's normal isn't it. Doesn't need a special name while the 19 in 20 are seen as the norm. Why are they the norm?

See also synesthesia. 'disorder'. Why a disorder? Who decides? How common is it? If mild then people won't even notice they have it.

My point is that autism is most definitely not a metal health condition. The earliness of showing symptoms and the severity of those symptoms from a young age that occur make this obvious.

The spectrum stuff is s bit iffier. The 'traits' are so broad that probably most people will find something that relates to them.

And who is to say that it's not a normal way of being? At which point on this spectrum?

And that's the bit that is open to this. Identifying as, being used to explain things which are seen as 'different' etc.

Tbh I have trouble seeing how even the online quiz type stuff is related to mental health issues anyway. I might have a look.

You've nailed my thought process around this area to Tibtom Just reading Pookah's post. I think it is an interesting argument. Certainly there is a link between autism and mental illness which I am not convinced can be easily dismiss by 'the world not being accommodating enough'. But statements like Alfonso's whether they mean them that way or not, shut down conversations and discussions and dismiss other people's 'lived experience'.

The attitudes to parents from some of those self-iding autistic 'advocates' just appall me. But maybe that is a discussion for the other thread.

Yes definitely as I said earlier in the thread I received a barrage of abuse for not saying anything controversial they even picked on the fact I said my daughter and tried to say I was talking about her like a possession all I said was my daughter is vunerable, easily manipulated and at risk of abuse (she's already had small events where people have manipulated her).

Why on earth would I (intersex - disorder of sexual development and therefore differences in reproductive organs) be neuro diverse?

So far there hasn't been shown to be any differences in brains of transgender individuals not linked to drug treatment so that cannot be neurodiverse either

I actually now write out the whole LGBTQIA because otherwise the A gets lost in + or not mentioned at all. That is pretty rubbish for the A people, whatever your views on LGB and T connections or separations.

LGBTQ is part of neuro-diversity, unless of course you think people are LGBTQ as a lifestyle choice. What else does anyone think it can be?

I always laugh when people claim LGBTQ has nothing to do with lesbians gays and bisexuals when LGB Alliance is mainly striaght people... sorry, Super Straight people

There seems to be a higher proportion of autistic people with what might be considered gender dysphoria but which may a sensory thing particularly around adolescence when their bodies are changing. There can also be a sense of alienation or isolation from same sex peers, particularly if they don't share the same kind of interests or if they find it hard to be accepted socially. Nowadays for a girl, for example, who feels they don't fit in with other girls and who may for sensory reasons find physical changes very challenging, they may believe that actually they are not a girl at all. I really struggled with being female as a teenager. I hated it and wanted to be a boy but at that time there was no-one encouraging that view, telling me it was possible or even desirable. But i understand the feelings of distress at changing bodies and social alienation and also being less concerned with societal norms which can seem illogical eg gender stereotypes.

Deliriumoftheendless Thanks! Something for me to look into

I would imagine there’s academic papers out there backing this up, but I’m in education not health so I don’t want to point you to some random paper I’ve found and don’t understand.

What does autism have to do with gender dysphoria, or homosexuality?

Thanks, I'm very relieved to have found this and the other thread on autism here. It was getting to the point that I wasn't even sure if I wanted to proceed with assessment and a potential diagnosis, if those were the kind of communities I would be expected to involved with. I have a good friend with two autistic kids of her own who has been nothing but supportive of me, when I told her that I planned to be assessed. The attitudes to parents from some of those self-iding autistic 'advocates' just appall me. But maybe that is a discussion for the other thread.

You're very welcome here as far as I am concerned! Thank you for your contribution!

I strongly suspect I am autistic. Not self identifying, but trying to save for a private assessment as it is almost impossible to be assessed through the HSE as an adult woman in Ireland.

I've joined a few Facebook groups, some for autistic women, some more general and quite frankly am horrified by the level of identity politics and language policing. And the shouty self-iding nonbinary individuals who cry oppression if anyone disagrees evening politely with them or asks them to clarify anything they say. I actually saw a transwoman bullied out of one of these groups for telling some of them to cop themselves on.

I joined them to learn from the experiences of other autistic people (women in particular) but it has become apparent that if I don't see autism as an all encompassing identity -as predefined by them-that there is no place for me there.

I'm a 49 year old asexual woman BTW. I don't force myself in LGB or T spaces. I hope I am welcome to post here.

Can anyone enlighten me on ADHD? A friend recently told me he had been diagnosed with it. He's around 40years old. I've always felt he was mildly depressed. I looked up ADHD but it didn't describe him at all. I'm confused and a lost as to how to support him?

Apologies, it is my opinion (based on studying in this field) that the psychological and neurological aren't really that separate. My autism, depression and social anxiety are disorders of my brain. It is in all likelihood structural and chemical.

In one study they have used neuroimaging and are able to see the regions in the brain affected by a neurological disorder vs a psychiatric one. Neuroimaging can see both, even if they are in different regions of the brain. I fail to see the true distinction other than specialities of doctors and the approach to treatment. Autistics are also mainly seen by psychiatrists. I will add some links relating to my beliefs on this.

ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.159.8.1261
jnnp.bmj.com/content/76/suppl_1/i31
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3101504/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26045351/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1123428/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4629069/

People latch on to them, or start wanting to spend the money on not so useful ways, in some cases they become a political tool, people start to self diagnose.

Funding is always a political tool. A good example is the funding of women's organisations in Scotland being conditional on the supporting the governments antiwomen agenda. But even where if is less obvious than that it is still a mechanism to achieve political ends. And groups change their direction to access those funds. Large organisations do so in a corporate way to tender for large grants in areas they have no prior experience. But grassroots groups change too - indeed it can take relatively small amounts of funding to capture a grassroots groups and suddenly you have people proclaiming a lived experience narrative which matches your goals and silencing of those who don't.

That's really interesting. Can you be more specific about funding for grass roots groups, research, education?

What would you like to see?

In particular, funding for research and grass roots organisations that help people in useful ways really need to be improved.

But the kind of public awareness and pushing to get people educated that you see is much more of a two-edged sword. It doesn't seem like it should be. Helping people better understand the issues, and also you need awareness to get funding allocated or given.

But somehow with almost all of these campaigns, there seems to be a really dark side that comes out of them at times. People latch on to them, or start wanting to spend the money on not so useful ways, in some cases they become a political tool, people start to self diagnose.

I can't decide if it's always been like this, or it comes out of more recent political and social trends.

Yes keep well away from the online groups, as I found out there is so very aggressive and vocal activists.

I got what you were saying Pookah I think it's hard to separate Mental health and neurology when they are so closely tied. Especially when some people say Mental but mean of the mind which is neurological.

I do find it interesting the overlap between all neurological disorders so Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia and Dyspraxia. Certainly more studies need to be done around that area particularly as we know there's an overlap between Autism and all of them. Also if you have a child with autism one of their siblings is much more likely to have ADHD.

I'm dyslexic and luckily it's only auditory processing that is majorly affected never ask me to take notes in a meeting but my daughter is autistic are they some how linked?

But back to the OPs point I think it's worth any parent keeping a strong eye on any groups their Autistic child is in as particularly as we know predators look for "easy prey" and have gone to great lengths to hide their true nature.

Autism is a neurological disorder not a mental health condition.

Mental health does need more attention in general , but also sorely needed are treatment protocols based on empirical evidence. Ethical research should not be stifled.

It is my opinion as a diagnosed autistic person that while we are all under the mental health umbrella, each disorder still also deserves their own separate initiatives. We have different needs. Just like the more physical diseases and disorders do.

I have been made aware over the years that some people think I am lesser and perhaps even disposable because of my autism. I have also dealt with my own suicidal ideation. I don't expect people without autism to completely convert the entire world and deny reality to make it suit us though. Instead, without infringing on anyone's rights or undermining safeguarding in the process, we can cooperate to devise and implement strategies to better the lives of the mentally ill.

Reminds me of when having ADHD was a ‘thing’- so many kids prescribed drugs like sweeties. It became a bit of a ‘special badge’ for some didn’t it. Ditto Indigo children (remember that?)