This Guardian article should have been titled: "Dear Owen..."

@ArabellaScott

Well, I should have waited to after listening to comment, shouldn't I? That'll learn me.

• first point made is 'authoritarianism' seems to divide roughly equally betwen political standpoints (right/left) and does not equal conservatism.

Possibly that's changing.

I'm not sure any of those - right or left, authoritarian or liberal - really corresponds to progressivism or conservatism. At the moment progressives like to think of themselves as liberal, but we can see that actually may are quite keen to restrict certain freedoms.

I wonder what Jessie would make of "Oliver's Army" and its notorious line. Would she damn it as racist, not having a clue what Elvis* is on about.

(*for my generation, there is only one Elvis.)

Occasionally, when I try to talk about progressive witch-hunts, I am met with the response that I should focus my energies on the malign actors with real power on the right. I do, and accept it is true that in England, but not in Nicola Sturgeon’s Scotland, authoritarian conservatives have more power than their progressive counterparts, and use it to purge the BBC and government bodies of any dissident voices

Nothing wrong with the grammar, but condensed to the point of needing a second take. Could well have been edited for brevity. No formal errors, though.

Occasionally, when I try to talk about progressive witch-hunts, I am met with the response that I should focus my energies on the malign actors with real power on the right. I do [focus my energies on malign actors with real power on the right], and accept it is true that in England, but not in Nicola Sturgeon’s Scotland, authoritarian conservatives have more power than their progressive counterparts, and use it to purge the BBC and government bodies of any dissident voices.

i.e. When I make this kind of argument, people tell me to focus on the threat from the right, not the left. I do so, and in England the main threat of official silencing and cancellation is indeed from the right. In Scotland, however, it's from the left [so we really should be taking it seriously whatever side it comes from].

Very interesting piece - thanks @aliasundercover.

Yes, it applies to, say, China, as well as the Weimar Republic or modern-day Turkey.

Well, I should have waited to after listening to comment, shouldn't I? That'll learn me.

• first point made is 'authoritarianism' seems to divide roughly equally betwen political standpoints (right/left) and does not equal conservatism.

35% of all populations are naturally predisposed to authoritarian regimes. They want a strong ruler and firm rules and those who don't obey them punished

My concern about so much of identity politics has been the political horseshoe it creates that is pro totalitarianism rather than liberation.

35% of all populations are naturally predisposed to authoritarian regimes. They want a strong ruler and firm rules and those who don't obey them punished

That's interesting. Quite a spectrum of authoritarianism, I suppose! That latter statement could equally apply to a fairly trad right-wing view (small c conservative, say) and a very much more extreme one, couldn't it?

Well yes, the SNP are in power in Scotland, but Cohen seems to take it as read that the SNP are progressive, because they're not the Tories. Historically the SNP were the Tartan Tories. The current SNP are far from progressive when it comes to women's rights.

It's a good point. The SNP are determined to appear progressive. In terms of actual policy, though, are they? SNP like photo opps, headlines, soundbites and attention grabbing policy. When it comes to more practical & larger stuff (education, health, transport, economy), I am not sure how 'progressive' they are. It's a bit hard to parse out what is policy because it's hard to see behind the flashy gimmicks.

I also imediatly wondered how many of the 20% women informing on their husbands were victims of domestic abuse. I bet it was a lot. I would probably do the same if it was the only way to get away from abuse.

Tea and white people in Ireland. It rains 🌧 a lot here too. All caused by patriarchal white privilege and neo colonial cisheteronormativity. The English in short

I don't know who Jessie Tu is although I am equally as mystified as she is by the adulation for Sally Rooney and her tedious teenagers . There is plenty of scope for criticism.

This Times btl comment was about the television series but applies equally to the book

Haven't felt so crushingly bored waiting for something to happen to some teenagers I couldn't care less about since the Blair Witch Project

Tu banging on about how white the books are just shows her own ignorance. What did she expect in a country where 95% of the population is white?

Haven't read the article yet but sharing this as I feel it could also be aimed at OJ:

"Why did you go in to bat for a sex offender?" (WiiSpa)

It’s an excellent article, thanks for linking to it. Much needed.

I hope Jessie Tu never reads The Help or A Time to Kill. She's chasing clout after the success of Normal People.

This is a link to a Helen Lewis programme on Radio 4, The Spark, where she talks to a psychologist about the long-known fact that around 35% of all populations are naturally predisposed to authoritarian regimes. They want a strong ruler and firm rules and those who don't obey them punished.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000y7sq

It came as a revelation to me: explained Trump's appeal, explained why Boris is so popular, explained why so many apparently good neighbours and colleagues dobbed people into the Stasi and the Gestapo. It's very chastening.

He's saying that the Tories have more power in England, but the SNP hold the power in Scotland

That's true at the political level, but I'm not convinced it is so clear cut at the social level

Well yes, the SNP are in power in Scotland, but Cohen seems to take it as read that the SNP are progressive, because they're not the Tories. Historically the SNP were the Tartan Tories. The current SNP are far from progressive when it comes to women's rights.

Embarrassing Tony Blair did this and it was left unchecked for years. Some believe that this has led to the state we're in re trans rights. I have no idea where a solution is to be found - true impartiality in appointments is not to be found.

That's true at the political level, but I'm not convinced it is so clear cut at the social level.

He agrees with that point.

In any event, power’s ability to harm is relative. It depends on where you stand. In most of the liberal culture industries the fear of public shaming by progressives is far greater than the fear of state punishment.

Welcome to the world we live in, where To Kill A Mockingbird is condemned for promoting a White Saviour narrative, and some inner London schools cannot teach Arnold Wesker's "Roots" for fear of being accused of cultural appropriation.

Eh?

I've not read the book (couldn't get past the first couple pages).

This a something a character in the book thinks?

I mean so what?

Characters in books think and do all sorts of things.

Anyone making a hooha (I've not heard of any hooha) can say what they wish.

It's nonsensical to get angry about the thoughts of an imaginary character.

Don't get it.

many victims of DV lack the courage to recognise that they are victims and to report.

Well now of course. Because what holds women in these relationships is complex psychology and threat. But if you get the gestapo to remove the man, there is no threat. And what held women in relationships back then was less complex; societal pressure and lack of rights. I'd argue that historically marriage was different.

Just musing anyway. It's probably impossible to work out. Although PP's link up thread does tend to imply there may have been some cases.