James/Lisa Shupe on autogynephilia.

[quote Signalbox]Interesting Benjamin Boyce interview with James/Lisa Shupe discussing the difficulties of accessing medical care for autogynephilia.

Shupe talks about their (quite significant) struggle with autogynephilia and coming to terms with the idea that they are not and would never be female, and the difficulties of getting the treatment that they needed once they told doctors that they didn't "identify" as a woman. Shupe says that they have been forced to lie and say that they identify as female to get appropriate medical care.

"coming to terms with the idea that they are not and would never be female" - I'm not sure what you're saying / implying. From what I have seen I got the impression that it was more less about "OMG, I can never be a female!" it was more "OMG I'm not even sure I want to be female - I'm a man. Why was I pushed towards transition when the reality is I required mental heath support related to physical and sexual abuse as a child, PTSD in the army, massive exposure to extreme porn in the army, and whatever other issues I have rattling round my head?"

You tube channel You're Kiddin' Right has some interesting videos on this topic and specifically on Shupe.

It's so so disturbing how women are being used as props in disturbed men's fantasy lives. And we're not even allowed to say no, or talk about it openly. It is worrying that AGP is being erased as a diagnosis just because it doesn't fit the "gender identity" narrative. Trans activists don't want AGPs to exist and they don't want women talking about it and what better way than to erase both the diagnosis and treatment options for people trying to get help.

Some of the people sucked into this stuff are very troubled, and don't have a lot of capacity to make good judgments about these ideologies. They've been let down by the people who are supposed to be keeping watch.

I look to the Guardian to invite Phoenix to write a column about being the first genderless/non-binary adult who continued puberty blockers into adulthood to achieve this state

Phoenix is not a real person. This is a hypothetical case being used to discuss the ethics of ongoing puberty suppression into adulthood, in anticipation of such requests becoming likely from non-binary people.

If this is the person I think it is, I read a long thing by them saying they had been manipulated, they now thought the legal thing was a big mistake, and sex is a thing.

I think it was this
www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/10/i-was-americas-first-non-binary-person-it-was-all-a-sham/

And I think they did a good thing after being reported on widely over the non binary thing. To actually go public with the fact it was a mistake and what happened along the way in terms of 'affirmative' approach.

Fascinating interview, which raises many questions. Has a female ever been diagnosed with AGP?

Who was it who first told men who wish to present in a feminine way that they should take cross sex hormones & BE women? (Why not just present in a feminine way & be effeminate men?

It would be brilliant to hear from Shupe's wife and her version of events. I wonder if she knew of the homosexual hook ups.

people you never hear from, the Trans Widows. What horror has his poor wife been through. It seems to me she has been, for the majority of her marriage/life his carer and I think even now he sees her as a tool to be used in his life

As long as women are only recognised in the role of supporting actors or sources of validation for others then we continue to be invisible and to create injury and even outrage if we assert personal needs or the need for acknowledgement.

Although I have sympathy for this persons poor mental health and the lack of proper logical and compassionate medical care. I cannot forget the damage that this person has done to all women.

For all said I'm grateful to the interviewer to give a window into a sexual disorder that even people who are suffering from have no understanding of.

His non binary status (now recanted) has watered down and muddied the reality of the word Woman.
He has been allowed in this interview to show what the reality of AGP is and its horrifying for everyone involved.

My main sympathy is always for the people you never hear from, the Trans Widows. What horror has his poor wife been through. It seems to me she has been, for the majority of her marriage/life his carer and I think even now he sees her as a tool to be used in his life.

I would distinguish those 2 states but this is one of many reasons that IANAL.

I look to the Guardian to invite Phoenix to write a column about being the first genderless/non-binary adult who continued puberty blockers into adulthood to achieve this state.

Phoenix, 18, was assigned female at birth but has identified as gender non-binary (not entirely/exclusively male or female) since age 5. Phoenix uses they/them pronouns, has short hair and wears gender-neutral clothes. When Phoenix was 11, they began puberty and became extremely distressed by development of their breast buds and anxious about menstruation commencing soon. This prompted Phoenix and their parents to ask Phoenix’s paediatrician for puberty blockers to halt puberty and stop further pubertal development. At that time, Phoenix told their paediatrician they did not want to discontinue the use of such blockers in the future, as they did not want to go through any puberty. [continues]

Notini L, Earp BD, Gillam L, et al. Forever young? The ethics of ongoing puberty suppression for non-binary adults. J Med Ethics. 2020;46(11):743-752. doi:10.1136/medethics-2019-106012

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7656150/

It's a thoughtful discussion. And again, it's made me very acutely aware that I'm not a specialist bioethicist.

Let’s not forget the Guardian gave a celebratory column to Shupe for becoming the USA’s first “legally genderless person”:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/i-am-first-official-genderless-person-united-states

Wrong side of history my arse…

** reconcile it with the lack of curiosity...

The total lack of emphasis on really understanding sex dysphoria specifically, and identity problems more generally, including the normal ones many young people deal with, really stands out to me.

When people talk about being kind, and acceptance, I struggle to reconcile it with even a basic level of curiosity about the cause or origin of the person's feelings.