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Original poster

Rosie Duffield thank you

237 replies

Whatthechicken · 10/09/2021 16:39

I haven’t seen another thread on this today and I know she must be on here - thank you Rosie!

Rosie on Twitter today:

twitter.com/rosieduffield1/status/1436276236049862661?s=21

Hope that’s a clicky link.

Despite the hate you may be getting Rosie, there is a legion behind you!

OP posts:
CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 18:17

@lazylinguist

It's illegal to wrongly self-ID

What does that mean? How could you wrongly self ID if the entire concept is subjective?

Yes, that's what I was about to ask. How can you self-ID 'wrongly' when self ID means you are whatever you say you are?

the spectre raised here and elsewhere is the man who frivolously claims to be a (trans) woman to get access to women's spaces. That's not what GRA reform is about and it would be illegal to falsely claim you are trans to access women's spaces, as alleged to commit further crimes.
CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 18:14

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's illegal to wrongly self-ID

In what sense?

have you read the draft bill?
MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/09/2021 18:12

So many attempts on this thread to divert women from celebrating an ethical woman MP who is standing up for women's rights and child safeguarding with lots of "what about the toilets?" and flaky versions of Stonewall fantasy law.

Rosie Duffield's an excellent MP - and good for her for calling out the hypocrisy of that mayor.

lazylinguist · 11/09/2021 18:11

It's illegal to wrongly self-ID

What does that mean? How could you wrongly self ID if the entire concept is subjective?

Yes, that's what I was about to ask. How can you self-ID 'wrongly' when self ID means you are whatever you say you are?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2021 18:06

Discrimination in the EA2010 is not based on people with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment trumping women's privacy and dignity. It is interpreted in that way by lobby groups.

merrymouse · 11/09/2021 18:06

It's illegal to wrongly self-ID

What does that mean? How could you wrongly self ID if the entire concept is subjective? Are you excluding people who are gender fluid?

Please answer the question and actually explain on what grounds somebody would be taken to court because they had wrongly self ID’d.

CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 18:05

@merrymouse

I was misgendered until my boobs became absolutely unignorable.

You might have been misgendered as a child. Without an Adam’s Apple and a deep voice it is unlikely that you would mis-sexed as an adult.

I think you are confusing prejudice against people who are gender nonconforming and genuine inability to discern sex.

so you are saying every time a NGC woman gets misgendered, it's malice/intentional, rather than a mistake?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2021 18:05

A trans person should be free to select the facilities (such as toilets or changing rooms)
appropriate to the gender in which they present. For example, when a trans person starts^ to live in their acquired gender on a full-time basis they should be afforded the right to^ use the facilities appropriate to their acquired gender. Service providers must avoid^ discriminating against anyone with the protected characteristic of ‘gender reassignment’.^

That's a biased interpretation of the law, not the law itself.

GreyhoundG1rl · 11/09/2021 18:04

How can anybody "wrongly Self ID"? Confused. Doesn't the very nature of it preclude anyone telling them they're wrong?!

Waitwhat23 · 11/09/2021 18:04

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's illegal to wrongly self-ID

In what sense?

@catherinajtv As the GRA reform Bill is a draft and hasn't been passed yet, how can it currently be illegal?
CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 18:04

@Waitwhat23

How is it not the law? EA2010, section 7?

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

This is simply a description of the protected characteristic of gender reassignment?

Please explain the law around single sex spaces (bearing in mind the exemptions allowed).

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/484857/Providing_services_for_transgender_customers-a_guide.pdf

A trans person should be free to select the facilities (such as toilets or changing rooms)
appropriate to the gender in which they present. For example, when a trans person starts
to live in their acquired gender on a full-time basis they should be afforded the right to
use the facilities appropriate to their acquired gender. Service providers must avoid
discriminating against anyone with the protected characteristic of ‘gender reassignment’.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2021 18:02

It's illegal to wrongly self-ID

In what sense?

Waitwhat23 · 11/09/2021 18:02

@CatherinaJTV

Have you answered @sophoclesthefox yet?

I tried - seems my answer wasn't satisfactory (needs a "shrug" icon).

Oh, I must have missed it - could you direct me to your answer please?
Waitwhat23 · 11/09/2021 18:01

How is it not the law? EA2010, section 7?

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

This is simply a description of the protected characteristic of gender reassignment?

Please explain the law around single sex spaces (bearing in mind the exemptions allowed).

CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 18:00

@merrymouse

nobody wants to give "men" access though.

You do if any man can be included in the group of people ‘trans woman’.

This shouldn’t be a difficult concept.

Have you read the GRA reform bill draft? It's illegal to wrongly self-ID. Therefore not "any man" would be included in the group of "trans women", just trans women.
lazylinguist · 11/09/2021 17:59

nobody wants to give "men" access though.

Yes they do. They want to give access to people who would be considered men by practically everyone in the world. TRAs' own definition of 'women' does not trump the rest of the world's.

merrymouse · 11/09/2021 17:57

I tried - seems my answer wasn't satisfactory

Really? Perhaps you could copy and paste.

merrymouse · 11/09/2021 17:56

I was misgendered until my boobs became absolutely unignorable.

You might have been misgendered as a child. Without an Adam’s Apple and a deep voice it is unlikely that you would mis-sexed as an adult.

I think you are confusing prejudice against people who are gender nonconforming and genuine inability to discern sex.

merrymouse · 11/09/2021 17:53

nobody wants to give "men" access though.

You do if any man can be included in the group of people ‘trans woman’.

This shouldn’t be a difficult concept.

CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 17:52

Have you answered @sophoclesthefox yet?

I tried - seems my answer wasn't satisfactory (needs a "shrug" icon).

CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 17:50

access for men

nobody wants to give "men" access though.

CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 17:50

People can tell what sex people are. It's an evolutionary trait. Women's politeness (and fear of causing a fuss/being threatened) has been mistaken for acceptance of a situation.

I am sorry, but that's bollocks. I was misgendered until my boobs became absolutely unignorable. My classmate B didn't grow boobs and had stuff thrown at her whenever we entered the women's changing rooms, even in her late teens. Butch/NGC women are mistaken for men all the time. "We can always tell" is just not a thing.

merrymouse · 11/09/2021 17:48

I think she is trans phobic, because she seems to equate access of trans women to women's spaces (which is legal now) as inherently dangerous.

Are you not reading the thread?

She believes (probably influenced by her experience of DV) that access for men is inherently dangerous.

Again, please could you explain what trans woman means and who is excluded from this definition.

CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 17:47

@GreyhoundG1rl

It is also not "a courtesy" that we "allow them" to use the women's. It's the law. It is not the bloody law, and if you're confused on / refuse to accept this very fundamental fact I think we can safely assume the rest of your interminable arguments are complete bollocks too.
How is it not the law? EA2010, section 7?
CatherinaJTV · 11/09/2021 17:45

@Blibbyblobby

Suspect this is just a poster coming for a daily plop to keep the thread derailed. I doubt there will be further engagement until the thread re-establishes itself, at which point we can expect another plop-by post.

If they genuinely wanted to talk about these issues they would start a thread for them.

for which issues? This thread is about Duffield. I think she is trans phobic, because she seems to equate access of trans women to women's spaces (which is legal now) as inherently dangerous. Why would I start a new thread when this thread is there? Are you not just annoyed because I didn't chime in with the "she's SO brave" choir?