Not enjoying the Janey Godley pile on....

It's true for sure that there can be really bigoted people whose comedy appeals to other bigots. Though actually I think the UK, and Canada, don't have a ton of this.

But I really really don't trust the right on types people to recognize the difference between humour that is racist, that is edgy, ironic, etc. There are too many examples of such people targeting things, especially older stuff, that was explicitly anti-racist, because they don't have the nous to recognize that it's not meant to be a positive depiction.

NiceGerbil
'A Scottish govt department wrote individually to website owners hosting articles on Barbie k and told them to take them down or risk court. It was a govt dept unrelated to the situation in any way'

• Can you expand on this? Where did you hear / read about it?

It's a difficult line between letting horrible people say their thing so others can make their mind up.

And concern about audience feeling encouraged in what they think.

It does go both ways though. There are plenty of comedians who those who enjoy a good racist etc joke would be happy to never see or hear again.

In the end if the audience wasn't there then certain types of joke would vanish. The comedians aren't the cause iyswim. They're a symptom.

Let her do her thing. With or without whatever criticism.

The Scot govt hiring her for high profile campaign etc is the massive issue here. IMO.

People can and should say what they like and joke about what they like.

(Well hate speech but that's well can't be bothered to get into it).

If their jokes target people that are different to them in a horrible way. There can be consequences.

If enough people like their jokes and they are a performer then they will get an audience and earn money.

There are comedians who I like but get a lot of awful things posted at them etc due to who they are/ what they joke about.

In the end it's the audience who decides. And whether they get airtime on telly is down to the audience numbers generally if no public funding.

As long as there is an audience for racism mysogyny etc then there will be comedians that they want to watch.

So that's one thing.

In this case the massive problem is the actions and reaction of the Scottish govt. Handwave. Not good enough. Stop talking about this partisan division.

On top of the enforcement of the new hate crime laws when it comes to certain topics/ types of people. But not others. And the fact that leaving those people out of protection by hate crime law was highly contraversial and they would not countenance including.

And then that they got that letter and said piss off. Well I mean fuck the lot of them really.

These politicians all over the UK (except NI? don't know tbh). Putting trans stuff as such a massive priority. Even though the problems plenty of it are totally obvious. And have already presented serious problems. (Eg Barbie k). Spending so much interview time and govt time on it. They must know that loads of women (and men) think it's nonsense and in some situations dangerous nonsense.

Why??

Just remembered. A Scottish govt department wrote individually to website owners hosting articles on Barbie k and told them to take them down or risk court. It was a govt dept unrelated to the situation in any way.

And it worked. Info has just.. gone. All the detail at the time etc.

I went as far as to look at the govt site, justice area. They publish all the court proceedings. Barbie k comes back with nothing. And we know they have been to court at least once and strong indication is in the female estate.

This is really really extreme stuff. State censorship to protect... Them? Or an extraordinarily violent criminal who wants to attack women, and has. Just to cover up where BK is in prison? Why???

Sorry for going off topic. But this is incredibly concerning that the govt are doing this.

You are very wrong. Her tweets were outrageous.

NRFT but Live By the Tweet Die By the Tweet. Zero sympathy from me.

The cancel culture JG advocated has bitten her on the arse and good riddance. What’s more, it’s a bad news story for cancel culture. It’s possible people will be less quick to cancel others if they think it might happen to them at some point. So win-win really.

The Hate Crime Bill is ludicrous and Orwellian. By contrast Twitter popularity/public perception is brutal and lonely. Neither is to be recommended really.

feel a bit sorry for janey but I guess if she had ever encountered me on twitter she would have been vicious and vile and not cared if I had been hurt by it....

Doea that matter, though? You choose your own response based on your own ethics. Not on someone else's. At least, that's how I try to approach it.

Watching NS on c4 now.

Woke is used as a pejorative.
Well so what. Hardly new. Like

Bleeding heart lefty
Political correctness gorn mad
Tree hugger
Etc etc

The tweet about the stag do prostitute dwarf and blow jobs is absolutely sick.

Oh for fucking fucks sake.

And Yousef tries to deflect with don't make this a partisan issue.

I'm not Scottish and I know there are political etc divides.

However this points to... What we always said would happen with the new hate crime law. It's being leveraged against those the govt disagrees with and those who support them get shit like this handwaved away.

The brazenness of it. It's indefensible.

.... there are many many comedians, though, who manage to be absolutely hilarious, who make you cry with laughter without being so vile and abhorrent in what they say.

I don't really think this is relevant. Yes, some comedians have a different kind of humour, some are quite gentle, etc.

Some use humour that highly contentious, and if it didn't hit the mark could be deeply offensive. But if they do hit the mark it's not only funny, it's a powerful tool for social critisism.

Fifty years ago the humour that got people in trouble was about different things - The Life of Brian, say. That hit the mark. Another film might not. But would we say, maybe they just should have used some other approach? One that wouldn't be at risk of putting people off?

Any comedian is going to miss the mark sometimes. You can't skate along that edge without sometimes going over. If they have to be safe, they are going to have to be silent.

Godley's real problems are that controversial comedians aren't usually the right face for a government to put to the public, that she is herself a proponent of cancel culture which also trying to claim the freedom of her comedic role, and worst of all, she rarely hits the mark and so isn't very funny (though I suppose that might be a matter of taste.)

"Zero Waste Scotland carried out the necessary due diligence and were satisfied with the findings"

🤦🏻‍♀️

https://twitter.com/leyanelle/status/1436400686586081281?s=21

Oh dear. This is looking like a serious f* up on Sturgeon's government's part. They dismissed a complaint about her back in June.

From the above tweet:

"I wrote to your government in June regarding Janey Godley's racism and gave examples, including archived links to tweets. Your govt told me you were fine with it, & dismissively told me if I had a problem I should report it as a hate crime."

I don't feel sorry for her at all.

She's the face of a govt campaign. This stuff she's said has emerged. Hardly surprising plenty of people are saying wtf.

And yes of course anyone can say or joke about what they like.

But that doesn't mean that people who think it's totally out of line should not say what they think.

All Sturgeon, the SNP and any other bystanders have to decide is whether her contrition makes her someone you would trust going forward and want to associate with. My view is that a 60 year old who engaged in the sort of "banter" JG has indulged in for many years is unlikely to be a sincere character now, and certainly not a reformed one.

This. It appears that the fee for the ads was a poisoned chalice; without that endorsement, her tweets would never have been investigated. I wonder if there are friends of Janey's in the decision making process who now feel a bit guilty that they put such a spotlight on her.

For me it's the role working with the govt that is a problem when she's said things like that.

Given their stance on hate speech etc.

And sturgeons comments oh well you know comedy. What?!

The whole point of Count Dankula's (nazi pug guy's) joke was getting a cute little dog to do something absolutely abhorrent. He did it to annoy his girlfriend (the owner of the pug).

David Baddiel supported Dankula so he is being consistent here.

Glinner was a critic of Dankula, but has since admitted he got it wrong. I was similar: was disgusted by the joke, bit horrified that he was taken to court over it.

I don't like Frankie Boyle or his comedy at all, but he does more than just throw slurs at people.

Yep, free speech is something I'm all for, but it comes with consequences.

I'm generally in favour of free speech, but also believe you need to accept that this comes with consequences and accountability. Comedians as a group seem to be very keen to ensure that they are allowed to treat as comedy (however unfunny their brand of comedy might be) any topic they choose, whilst at the same time, policing the discourse of everyone else in public life. That's how Frankie Boyle gets away with it. He has the backing of his community, and appears that so does JG.

Do comedians in general think that? I know some do for sure - but I wouldn't have said it was all of them by any means.

It's totally hypocritical when they are.

What WOULD be a good apology?

It's not anyone on here's place, or Sturgeon's place for that matter, to accept an apology not meant for them. She attacked many people with many different slurs. None of them are the people currently leaping to her defence. It's up to the subjects of her racism and disablism to decide whether they have been apologised to adequately.

All Sturgeon, the SNP and any other bystanders have to decide is whether her contrition makes her someone you would trust going forward and want to associate with. My view is that a 60 year old who engaged in the sort of "banter" JG has indulged in for many years is unlikely to be a sincere character now, and certainly not a reformed one.

Sadly I am not, shark. Furious. But not surprised.

In really bad taste, sure, not especially funny, absolutely. But there's no indication that it was pro-fascism and it would likely be offensive to anyone who really was a fascist.

I'm very surprised by Humza Yousaf's response. Very surprised.