Nicola Sturgeon shouts “shame on you” to Tory MSP who mentioned last week’s demo

[quote Igneococcus]According to a Panelbase poll for the Times, NS and the SNP are out of step with the Scottish electorate on GRA reform:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/30abcf32-134e-11ec-b01e-096275f2ac22?shareToken=58478af1d8c6357983f88928f8a58b5e[/quote]
Very informative article- thanks for sharing. And yes, some of the comments are astute / funny.

BTW, are primary school teachers in Scotland REALLY having to implement gender ideology regarding children playing with toys??

Best quote in the comments regarding Sturgeon - 'The only thing she is interested in regarding schools are the lavatories. Unreal.'

Have they honestly been so sealed into their weird focus group bubble that they don't understand how this policy will play out?

Story about Tony Benn, who would begin all his public meetings with something like, As I travel around this country, the people I meet tell me they agree with me about XYZ....

Fool or Knave, who knows, but the point Tony misses, or chooses to miss, is that the people who turn out to hear him are not a representative sample.

They are, Igneo. But surely they must be aware of this? Have they honestly been so sealed into their weird focus group bubble that they don't understand how this policy will play out?

According to a Panelbase poll for the Times, NS and the SNP are out of step with the Scottish electorate on GRA reform:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/30abcf32-134e-11ec-b01e-096275f2ac22?shareToken=58478af1d8c6357983f88928f8a58b5e

Does Ireland work as an analogy?

Not entirely, but legally it's the precedent, a secession from the continuing UK with no need for a new Act of Union.

There's also Quebec, but that's primarily linguistic and cultural hence maybe a bit more Welsh, etc.

The SNP's preferred parallel with their mates in Catalunya is the worst of the three, and their references to the Czech-Slovak divorce are wishful thinking: The UK is not going to be dissolved, and the only share of the nation's foreign currency and gold reserves an indpendent Scotland would get would be in return for a one-for-one share of the national debt.

Times also reporting the "not valid" claim:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a1b8eff8-121c-11ec-86b8-9dcf48a101ba?shareToken=16572e639c59323b26ed7ecdfc128ce1

Does Ireland work as an analogy? I don't think there is the same sense in Scotland of having been invaded, given the different history of the formation of the Union and continuance of separate Scottish legal/education/religious establishments. I thought the relationship with England was more condescension towards an inferior appendage while useful - a bit like the UK relationship with the EU.

....oh, and a civil war.

Well if we pursue the Irish analogy, there was a split between the compromisers led by Collins and De Valera's holdouts that evolved into the two establishment parties in the Dial.

SNP are a lot like the Parti Québécois. They probably don't actually want independence, but think the threat of it will make central government treat them better or else.

Whether or not they genuinely want independence, independence would make the SNP obsolete.

there are big threats to women's safety and women's rights.
“They come from, sexism, misogyny, principally from abusive and predatory men,
🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ Shame there aren't any brain cells in those feminist fingertips

This thread is excellent in its clarity mobile.twitter.com/WG_Scotland/status/1436322791771545601

I also want NS pressed on her "not valid" claim.
Having spent too much time from a child to an adult avoiding predatory men I also find her beneath contempt. Those men don't even need to touch you to get off, they just need to make you feel uncomfortable or trapped to their will. You might "only", especially as a child squirm or blush, thinking how do I get out of this. NS is opening the door to make it that much easier for them without even a by your leave. She will put us in their path and help them close the door to escape.
Sadly being in Scotland ,if I write to my SNP MP he will ignore me and his fans silence me.

SNP are a lot like the Parti Québécois. They probably don't actually want independence, but think the threat of it will make central government treat them better or else. Quebec voters have repeatedly gone to the cliff-edge, looked over, and decided not to jump.

Jaysmith71
Exactly. And Scottish unionists formed a majority in the last vote. With a more complex current situation and the possibility of all the Scots in the rest of the UK possibly voting, I can see a bigger split in favour of maintaining the union.
With all that, I can't see what the point of Sturgeon's current tactics. Except the Occam's Razor answer that she can do what she likes because she has the power to do so.

I want her to be pressed on that.

Which concerns s she talking about? Who voiced them? How were they analysed to see what truth there was in them? What are the criteria for being “valid”? Is there a minimum number of women who would have to be affected to make it a “valid” issue?

She doesn’t get to be the arbiter. As Pp have stated, there were numerous groups who gave reasoned, evidenced statements about the potential impacts- not the “fears” of impacts, the actual real world effects of self ID, and I want her government to make clear, evidenced statements about how each of the scenarios are to be addressed, and have the courtesy to respond to the groups. Not this vague hand waving.

What then of Scottish Unionists? Are their views also "sincerely held" but "not valid?'

During the 2014 Campaign, there was a lot of traffic online that spoke of Scottish Unionists as "Quislings" and "Traitors" who 'must not be allowed to suceed.'

The SNP countered that people said nasty things about them also, true, but that was personal abuse, which was childish and wrong and quite different.

The 2014 Prospectus was one where Scotland would be analogous to the Republic of Ireland, with a common travel area and Scots permanently entitled to residence, franchise and citizenship of what was confusingly, deliberately, referred to as, "The Rest of the UK."

More than this, it would be Ireland Plus Plus Plus, with independent Scotland having a seat on the board and by implication a veto on the Bank of England, unlimited supplies of pound notes sent north by removal van to order, Royal Navy warships built in Scottish yards but the Royal Navy and its missiles expelled from Scotland, etc. Truly Cakeism on steroids.

Now, with the UK out of the EU and the SNP committed to rejoin, with the current mess over Irish trade there for all to see, it would be very interesting to see Sturgeon's new prospectus.

[quote ArabellaScott]Nicola Sturgeon on Good Morning Scotland today:

'Women's concerns on GRA "sincerely held" but "not valid'

twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1436232096067035140[/quote]
Oooooooh!

But can she tell us HOW they're "not valid", WHY they're "not valid"? Or even what she means by "va;id"?

Or are we all expected to pop a tremendous supply of popcorn and prepare to wait 20+ years?

[quote ArabellaScott]Nicola Sturgeon on Good Morning Scotland today:

'Women's concerns on GRA "sincerely held" but "not valid'

twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1436232096067035140[/quote]
The submissions to the second consultation included those from survivors who set out clearly, in well referenced arguments where self-id was already harming female survivors of male violence.

Lovely to hear from a feminist-to-her-fingertips that their concerns are not valid.

Why should such people have to worry about being "immigrants"?
That group of people would become immigrants in England or Wales or NI basically. Might mean nothing, might mean everything.

I'm sure at various points in the NI people might have thought it ludicrous that there would be checkpoints at roadblocks, or that there would be no real border between NI and ROI.

It's not outwith the realms of possibility that an independent Scotland might want to amass a group of government workers in a new Scottish Border Authority, maybe hired from areas not so sympathetic to the Nationalist cause, for example. Or transplants to the Borders area from ultranats in Glasgow. The border guard jobs in the US are sought after because they are comparatively well-paid. And its not like governments across the world haven't ramped up public sectors in the past to suit themselves.

All very theoretical, but there could be a real knock on effect of suddenly becoming a Scot in England rather than a UK citizen in the UK. Who knows?

Sturgeon is on record as seeking to widen the franchise for Indyref2 to include people born in Scotland but resident outside it

That must be ultra vires?

She's utterly untrustworthy and duplicitous. Why should such people have to worry about being "immigrants"? Given that Scotland is so inclusive and welcoming.

Sturgeon is on record as seeking to widen the franchise for Indyref2 to include people born in Scotland but resident outside it.
This would be very interesting if it happened. A million people living elsewhere in the UK are unlikely to vote to become essentially immigrants in their own country, no?
I know Scottish-born people in England who would vote for independence but the vast majority I know wouldn't.

Sturgeon is beneath contempt.

Murdo Fraser's calm, reasoned speech in the Holyrood chamber elicits a heckle from Sturgeon to shut him up.

Godley's foul mouthed, racist disablist tweets are "just things that happen" according to Sturgeon.

They come from, sexism, misogyny, principally from abusive and predatory men

And how does the rapist Karen White fit into this list? Or Katie Dolatowski? Or - if we're referencing US legal cases, now, the sex offender in the Wi Spa?

I'm confused to why Nicola thinks that just because something unjust is happening to women across the Atlantic in Texas that means that women in Scotland should have no single sex spaces away from male people?

Does she think Texas law covers Scotland? Leaving that aside she really should be aware that American ‘progressives’ do not acknowledge the sex of the people who have abortions.