Guardian article: “ Judith Butler: ‘We need to rethink the category of woman“

Someone might not feel comfortable in a mixed sex nude environment and so would choose to use a single sex one. They have the right to expect that the place is indeed single sex as advertised.

God she sounds like a boring arse. Too close to the abstract to take account of reality.

Children who live in a culture where people in general wear very little clothing, or mixed sex nudity in certain settings is normal, aren't going to be any more likely to be traumatized than kids at the beach.

But if you are a girl in a women's changing room with a man getting his kicks from being there, it's going to feel like a violation, much as it would for older women.

www.mumsnet.com/SearchArch?mustmatch=destroy+fags&dontmatch=&nickname=&src_displ_option=s_m_d_m&fromDate=07%2F09%2F21&toDate=08%2F09%2F21&topicmode=All

Haha. Guardian finally gets something right.

From the Joan Smith Twitter thread

Broz seems unreasonably cross about something or other.

I’m not sure that I would go so far as to say there should be no adult nudity within the family - I have no idea if there’s any evidence to suggest that nudity within a family is good or bad for children, and in any event, it would be impossible to police.

I suppose I’m partly wondering, if we had unisex changing spaces, would that give rise to any greater safeguarding risks in relation to children than already exist (except insofar as it would mean girls being exposed to the same risks that boys are already exposed to)? I know there are entirely separate arguments about how women and teenage girls might feel about unisex facilities.

I believe Helen's argument is that there should be no adult nudity at all in front of children, presumably in any setting including within the family.

I've certainly met people who feel that way, we do seem to have been heading more and more in that direction, with even many adults not being comfortable with things like single-sex changing room nudity and asking for individual showers and changing areas.

But it hasn't been normative for our society in the past and I'm not convinced it's particularly a great direction to move in.

The fact is that there is no way to prevent every adult pervert from ever looking at a child sexually, for example at the beach which is just a normal place for people to enjoy. But when you have a male in a female changing area, you already have a good chance that it is someone doing something transgressive on purpose.

Girls can see foo foos cos they have one, boys can see wee wees, cos they have one

Mixing them up, that's a no no, unless in a mixed area aaaaaaand they wear cossies!

When they are all grown up, they can choose to consent to seeing a foo foo or a wee wee....with other consenting adults, aaand in an appropriate plaaace....anytime ! Hurray!

@Helen8220 are there many young children wandering into spas to use the services by themselves around your way? Or are they taken in there by their parents who will have made the choice for themselves and their child/ren to use that space?

Should fathers not take their boys swimming and use male changing rooms at all then for example?

@Waitwhat23 I know that we disagree about the broader arguments about single sex spaces, but my point is, if we’re saying that people who get sexual kicks from exposing their penises to young children should not be allowed to expose their penises to young children, shouldn’t boys have that protection just as much as girls?

About that redefining of words thing, the first UK trans minister (holy type, not government) says that, er, ahem, 'homosexuality doesn't really exist'

mobile.twitter.com/SexNotGenderNI/status/1435179773316194309

@Helen8220 and I can't quite understand how you don't seem to see the difference between a single sex space, where there is an expectation that there may be nudity and where people have gone into that space with that knowledge and understanding and a space which is meant to be single sex space but someone of the opposite sex is in there naked. You can't possibly be that disingenuous.

I have been to many swimming pool changing rooms where women and girls have walked around half dressed or naked in a single sex space. I have been to a spa in Turkey where nudity was mandatory in a single sex space. In both spaces, the women and girls using that space were using it with the understanding there was likely to be nudity in that single sex space. This would be the same for the male area of both places I mention. The men and boys using that space would use it with the understanding it was a single sex space where there was likely to be nudity.

If someone comes into a single sex space, for women and girls, who has a penis, it is no longer a single sex space. The women and girls using that space did not consent to that change of use. They used it believing it was a single sex space.

‘We need to rethink“
in this context, 'we' feels like an example of forced teaming.

From the Twitter thread showing the bits conveniently cut from the article, given the truth having come out about the Wi Spa incident (I.e. sex offender taking advantage of self ID and the chilling effect) -

'Unfortunately we are living in anti-intellectual times'

Says the science denier. The cognitive dissonance is jaw dropping.

@Waitwhat23
have you got any comments about the Wi Spa incident? The ones GC feminists allegedly made up. The one that TRA's defended, saying that small girls shouldn't look at exposed penises? When it turned out it was in fact a sex offenders taking advantage of self ID and the chilling effect.

GC feminists aren't the ones defending men's right to expose their penis to young children

What slightly confuses me about this incident is that apparently no one would have had any problem with this person being naked in the men’s part of the spa, where they would have been presumably similarly exposing their genitals to small children. Personally I’m not sure it’s appropriate for anyone to be getting their genitals out in front of other people’s children.

Jane Clare Jones commenting on the before and after the cuts to the Butler item: twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1435357430217646086

NB: JCJ is using a useful compare and contrast difference checker tool.

The social media narrative built about the origins of SuperStraight is as fake as the social media narrative built about the Wi Spa sex offences.

Right ive got to go to bed

But if you could see your way to showing me the bit where posters have said they want to destroy gay people and where they said they enjoyed the super straight bit id be grateful

Thanks broz

It was blibby