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Original poster

New York Times Reviews Helen Joyce's Trans

40 replies

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 07/09/2021 13:14

Helen Joyce's announcement:

Happy U.S. publication day to me! And even though no American publisher was brave enough to pick the book up (the U.K. edition is being distributed in the U.S.), I got reviewed in the NYT. So frankly, American publishers’ loss

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1435208966355685378?s=20

I think Joyce is pleased with the way it was handled recalling her reminder that reviewers need to quibble about something (re: Aaronovitich's review). It's brave of the reviewer to do this at all given the contemporary controversies and the reviewer made a declaration of interest that she knows Joyce and they share some perspectives.

Final paragraph:

In context, though, these are fairly minor shortcomings. “Trans” is a compelling, overdue argument for viewing self-ID more critically. Even those outraged by Joyce’s positions would benefit from understanding them, given that, as she notes, self-ID polls quite poorly when its actual tenets are fully described to Americans and to the British. The present situation, in which liberal institutions not only embrace these ideas unquestioningly but also, increasingly, punish dissidents, is unsustainable. Open conversation about such fraught issues is the only realistic path forward, and Joyce’s book offers a good, impassioned start.

It's free to read but you need to create an account: www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

archive version: <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210907113407/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210907113407/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

OP posts:
secular111 · 07/09/2021 15:54

Surprised Tom Spence at Regnery didn't pick it up.

The American Booksellers Association ran an 'alternate' advertising drive to publicise Shriers Material Girls and it propelled the book into the bestseller lists, much to Spence's satisfaction.

NecessaryScene · 07/09/2021 15:06

Not sure it's worth a separate thread, but worth posting here.

Quillette has published an excerpt from Trans today:

The Truth About Autogynephilia

BraveBananaBadge · 07/09/2021 15:04

"I'm a deeply unintelligent individual" well quite. He could have just stopped there.

allmywhat · 07/09/2021 15:03

Oh, there’s some good stuff there already.

Jesse I'm a deeply unintelligent individual and even I can tell Joyce is a milk brained simpleton unable of even basic reasoning.

A man who’s unable of even basic grammar is saying this of a woman with a PhD in Maths. Damn, I will have to resist the temptation to watch the TRA reactions unfold.

BraveBananaBadge · 07/09/2021 15:01

The criticisms under Jesse's Twitter are telling - there's absolutely no room in their tiny minds for any sort intelligent debate. Things they don't like should not be allowed to exist, should not be written about, should not be spoken of. It's pure censorship.

Obviously we all know that, but it's plain as day here.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/09/2021 14:56

From the point of view of sales I really hope they do throw a hissy fit. A demo outside the NYT offices for instance would make copies fly off the shelves. Smile

Original poster
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 07/09/2021 14:53

@allmywhat

His Twitter @'s seem OK (hard to disentangle something specific because he's also got other interesting discussions and, afaict, he hasn't posted a link to the review himself): twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1435235686341357577

He has posted it, not much discussion, mostly a few people being amazed and a TRA who posted a closeup of a turd. It will be interesting to see if the TRAs eventually cop on en masse and throw a fit. Unless they have realised that it always backfires?

That happened after I'd posted so it will be interesting to watch what happens in the responses to his own post.

twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1435235686341357577?s=20

OP posts:
allmywhat · 07/09/2021 14:49

His Twitter @'s seem OK (hard to disentangle something specific because he's also got other interesting discussions and, afaict, he hasn't posted a link to the review himself):
twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1435235686341357577

He has posted it, not much discussion, mostly a few people being amazed and a TRA who posted a closeup of a turd. It will be interesting to see if the TRAs eventually cop on en masse and throw a fit. Unless they have realised that it always backfires?

allmywhat · 07/09/2021 14:38

Yes but it’s not just about Singal. Remember the staff tantrum at the Guardian about Suzahne Moore?

And the similar but less effective staff tantrum at the American publisher of Jordan Peterson’s book?

And the NY Times staff have had multiple woke hissyfits, although I can’t remember the details.

Publishing a review of this book seems highly likely to provoke something similar. Jesse Singal writing the review only makes the violence more literal. Have the NY Times decided to actually have this fight?

Original poster
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 07/09/2021 14:26

As a PP says, Jesse Singal is already cancelled which might make a difference.

His Twitter @'s seem OK (hard to disentangle something specific because he's also got other interesting discussions and, afaict, he hasn't posted a link to the review himself):

twitter.com/search?q=%40jessesingal&src=typed_query&f=live

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allmywhat · 07/09/2021 14:18

I am genuinely amazed that the
New York Times allowed this.

Do you think it’s going to lead to a grovelling apology, diversity trainings, staff signing letters, free counselling for every NY Times staffer who was traumatised by this heinous example of literal violence, struggle sessions, etc.?

I think that at this stage anyone working in the NY Times must have known what’s in that can of worms. They made a deliberate decision to open it anyway. So whoever made this decision probably has some backing from higher ups. I think this is a VERY good sign.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/09/2021 13:40

That would seem to be very good news.
I wonder how US sales will go.

Original poster
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 07/09/2021 13:32

Apologies for my incompetence in typing 'she' - I do know who Singal is, I had a brain fade in archiving the piece and juggling the link.

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 07/09/2021 13:29

The reviewer is Jesse Singal so the moderate tone isn't a surprise

Lol. Makes sense - get someone pre-cancelled to do it.

Still might not prevent the ceremonial burning of the editor, managing director and all close family members though.

nauticant · 07/09/2021 13:27

The reviewer is Jesse Singal so the moderate tone isn't a surprise. It is a surprise though that they chose him to do the review. I wonder what the backlash will be like?