Rufus Hound in panto

Hdhdjejdj · 2021-09-06T23:25:16+00:00

I saw on twitter that Rufus Hound has been attacked on twitter because of his part as Abanazar in Aladdin. He says that he applied eyeliner for the promotional poster in order to portray the fact he is the baddie, and that’s traditional in panto. He has been accused of ‘yellow face’ which he denies. What’s interesting is that there is no mention of the dames in the panto and one of the most vocal people ‘calling him out’ on twitter is himself a drag queen.

LobsterNapkin · 08/09/2021 23:52

@KaycePollard

I think it’s also the same old, same old lesbophobia.

We think we’re so so liberal and progressive nowadays, but watching a woman (even dressed as a boy) kissing another woman is full horror for many people. No-one says it, but I think that’s part of it.

Gay men are cuddly, domesticated, funny. Lesbians are just … well, we’d rather not think about that.

So do you feel that people were more comfortable with this before the casting change?

I'm not so sure about this.

KaycePollard · 08/09/2021 21:50

I think it’s also the same old, same old lesbophobia.

We think we’re so so liberal and progressive nowadays, but watching a woman (even dressed as a boy) kissing another woman is full horror for many people. No-one says it, but I think that’s part of it.

Gay men are cuddly, domesticated, funny. Lesbians are just … well, we’d rather not think about that.

LobsterNapkin · 08/09/2021 19:17

I suppose it gives a role for the young hunky types, even if they are not famous, Which might appeal to some?

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 08/09/2021 19:01

EsmaCannonball you have a very good point about principal boys not being seen any more.
My sister helps run a pantomime company,and I asked her why this is a while back.
Apparently the decline started a few years back,when young male soap stars started appearing in panto as the principal boy. People who like soaps were keen to see the actors in the flesh,this boosted ticket sales,and voila, women were ousted from that part. Its interesting that no longer employing women for the part has happened everywhere,even in small provincial theatres/ companies that would never attract top name soap stars or be able to afford them.

viques · 08/09/2021 18:40

@Jaysmith71

In line with vegan principles, the donkey was released and eaten by wolves, to be replaced by a solar-powered rickshaw.

And following the gender reveal party, some shepherds watching their flocks set alight are seeking compensation.

The Angel Gabrielle ‘s preferred pronouns are ze and they. As a respectful expression of Gabrielle’s true self please note the correct spelling of Gabrielle.

Jaysmith71 · 08/09/2021 17:31

In line with vegan principles, the donkey was released and eaten by wolves, to be replaced by a solar-powered rickshaw.

And following the gender reveal party, some shepherds watching their flocks set alight are seeking compensation.

viques · 08/09/2021 16:54

@EsmaCannonball

Little Oliver will be playing Mary, the birthing parent of the sweet baby Jesus, who is AMAB but don't anyone fucking assume they's gender. Joseph is enjoying wearing that long smocky thing far too much. We've got one non-binary wise individual, one gender-fluid wise individual, and Melchior would like everyone to know he is now demi-sexual. We're still having heated discussions over whether 'wise' is ableist language or a white value. The shepherds are now vegan community gardeners (and antifa). And the action takes place in the inn because we wanted to be inclusive. Please don't have any carceral thoughts about Herod. He's nice really and is a victim of colonialist oppression.

The frankincense and myrrh were certified of organic origin and the gold was mined by miners paid a living wage with profit sharing rights .

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 08/09/2021 10:39

@KaycePollard

I'm about to give a talk on pantomime & the dame, and what I'm going to argue is that yes, the Dame has long been seen as a cuddly English eccentricity. But, when you think about the social/ cultural politics of the Dame, she's really not an innocent fun character - she emerges at about the time Queen Victoria started visibly ageing, getting very stout, and in mourning for Albert. Pantomime Dames were perhaps a kind of knee-jerk reaction to being ruled over by such a woman. By a woman, period!

Pantomime exists in that gap between what is 'proper' or appropriate, and what is outrageous, offensive and inappropriate. It is deliberately naughty in all sorts of ways. This sense of Misrule goes back to pre-Christian religious festivals of mid-Winter. The Janus face, facing both backwards & forwards; the depths of mid-winter meaning that spring is on its way; and the brief moment of turning authority upside down - the child rules, (in Christian mythology, a baby is born as King of the world), and so on ...

I'd love to read a transcript of your talk, fascinating!

EsmaCannonball · 08/09/2021 10:32

Little Oliver will be playing Mary, the birthing parent of the sweet baby Jesus, who is AMAB but don't anyone fucking assume they's gender. Joseph is enjoying wearing that long smocky thing far too much. We've got one non-binary wise individual, one gender-fluid wise individual, and Melchior would like everyone to know he is now demi-sexual. We're still having heated discussions over whether 'wise' is ableist language or a white value. The shepherds are now vegan community gardeners (and antifa). And the action takes place in the inn because we wanted to be inclusive. Please don't have any carceral thoughts about Herod. He's nice really and is a victim of colonialist oppression.

Jaysmith71 · 08/09/2021 09:28

"China meant 'a very long way away....'"

See also Turkey, as in 'Turkey birds,' from a long way away, America, same thing.

And Shakespeare's Othelllo is not a Moroccan, he's a Moor, a black African Muslim, as opposed to a Turk, a brown Asian Muslim, including Arabs, or an Ethiopian, a black African Christian.

Childrenofthestones · 08/09/2021 09:24

@TheWeeDonkey

I think a lot of people outside of UK don't understand panto, which to be fair is pretty bizarre and plus its Twitter. So you take something silly, lighthearted and meaningless entertainment and turn it into something deliberately offensive and not just literal but actual violence.

The terror of the left wing mob. Instead of sitting there knitting, they sit tweeting.

Bordois · 08/09/2021 07:12

So I guess no more nativity plays at Christmas now either.

Fitt · 08/09/2021 02:05

www.victoriabeckhambeauty.com/products/satin-kajal-liner/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwm9yJBhDTARIsABKIcGYS0yrWSYCMff0zKHD9OysF2BbAedjrbBm7l-wAyZttMn-RovLNlmoaAoa7EALw_wcB

More culture appropriation. Should be banned.

FatJan · 08/09/2021 00:52

*Hdhdjejdj
I think Rufus Hound has said that the character is Arabic.

Jaysmith71
....Oh No He Isn't!*

😂😂😂

LobsterNapkin · 08/09/2021 00:03

Yeah, I think making the costumes etc look western for The Mikado is supposed to avoid people making complaints, and also allows them to use non-Japanese actors without getting criticism which might be expected in a more Japanese setting.

IN and of itself, the different setting isn't a problem and can be quite fun IMO. But as a way to avoid "problematic" elements I find it quite patronizing. We all know where it's meant to be set, we all know that it's a very typically Victorian bit of musical theater taking advantage of a setting and costumes which the audience had some new exposure to and found fascinating and beautiful.

Who is is really fooling?

aliciamoss · 07/09/2021 23:53

Oh dear. Until late C17 in Britain, women's roles were played by men because it was considered immoral for women to appear on stage. "Travesti" was/is a theatrical term for actors/actresses playing roles of the opposite gender. It's being going on for over a century - nothing new in other words. Women have played "breeches roles" for over a century. Cross dressing is not new. Panto is not new either, and has roots in Roman times, Mummer plays, and comedia dell'arte. To be traditional, the dame is played by a man. That is the point of the roles, as developed from the earlier forms of theatre.

Original poster

Hdhdjejdj · 07/09/2021 23:48

They wore 1920s clothes in this production.

OP posts:

NeverTalkToStrangers · 07/09/2021 23:31

Oh I should caveat, not all the lyrics remain the same - one casual use of a racial slur is replaced nowadays, and the Little List song is updated for topicality.

NeverTalkToStrangers · 07/09/2021 23:25

All the dialogue and lyrics in the classic Jonathan Miller production of the Mikado remain identical and repeatedly states that the characters are Japanese. However they are all wearing 1920s English costume and speaking in exaggerated RP accents to make it clear that this story has nothing to do with Japan and everything to do with England. It gets around the obvious issues rather brilliantly IMO.

Original poster

Hdhdjejdj · 07/09/2021 22:52

From memory I’m pretty sure they didn’t.

OP posts:

KimikosNightmare · 07/09/2021 22:42

@Hdhdjejdj

Interesting point about the topsy turvy element. I saw The Mikado recently and this is performed with no costume or make-up references to Japan. I think there is a nervousness about this particular production. However it is such a clear example of the comedy/satire of the age. As such it is part of our National culture. Should the want to preserve this trump the possibility of causing offence?

Did they skip If you want to know who we are ??

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/09/2021 22:34

@BraveBananaBadge

The eyeliner just wings out on him though? Is winged eyeliner racist?! I don't mean that in a 'gawd you can't do anything now, it's PC gorn mad' way, it's a genuine question as I've never heard this before?

Same, I've never made the connection either.

I wear a lot of eyeliner

When i went to india many years ago the two lads we met commented on the fact that i wore eyeliner ‘like our women’

BraveBananaBadge · 07/09/2021 22:27

The eyeliner just wings out on him though? Is winged eyeliner racist?! I don't mean that in a 'gawd you can't do anything now, it's PC gorn mad' way, it's a genuine question as I've never heard this before?

Same, I've never made the connection either.

Original poster

Hdhdjejdj · 07/09/2021 22:15

Interesting point about the topsy turvy element. I saw The Mikado recently and this is performed with no costume or make-up references to Japan. I think there is a nervousness about this particular production. However it is such a clear example of the comedy/satire of the age. As such it is part of our National culture. Should the want to preserve this trump the possibility of causing offence?

OP posts:

Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 07/09/2021 21:46

Hence Americans just know it as an Arabian story whilst most Brits simultaneously know the Chinese and Arabian settings without ever consciously clocking that something strange is going on

Oh my god, I have just realised this is so true!

Which is a major digression but actually explains why Mr Hound got into such a mess. He did "evil eyeliner" and because he hasn't started rehearsals yet he didn't realise that his character, Abanazer the Grand Vizir, is actually meant to be Chinese, and hence his eyeliner made him look like a racist stereotype.

The eyeliner just wings out on him though? Is winged eyeliner racist?! I don't mean that in a 'gawd you can't do anything now, it's PC gorn mad' way, it's a genuine question as I've never heard this before?