Transman wins lawsuit agains school board (Virginia) [Title edited by MNHQ at poster's request]

I never realised that we got link friilly loos for ladies and Tarzan themed ones for the chaps. I must’ve missed that.

Toilets are separated by sex, not gender.

Of course toilets are gendered spaces. For example, changing tables are often just found in women's toilets, condom machines in men's

Why do condoms come under gender.
I understand a woman might buy condoms for a man to use but whether someone is a woman or as trans man to put it politely they don’t have the equipment to use a condom on themselves.

If there is no 'gender' associated with people of either sex, what are trans people transitioning from and to?

*give people care based on their specific needs rather than lumping folks together into a specific body associated with a specific gender, throw the whole idea that men or women act or think a specific way away, etcetera.

Again missing the point that many female humans have a specific need to be able to class themselves by biological sex, and have single sex spaces. They can't and won't access mixed sex spaces. So this 'throw away everything and dawning of the age of Aquarius' stuff sounds lovely in theory, but practically is anything but inclusive or even basically practically functional.

If you wish to have an exciting space that defines no one and throw away whatever ideas you like, please go for it, go and enjoy yourself, create all the spaces you like and have a really lovely time.

Just please don't perform a snatch and grab raid on other people's needs and rights and access while you do it, because people are affected by more than just this narrow, political agenda which is not at all inclusive or caring about anyone outside of its particular aims, and which often makes it appear very female discriminatory and unfriendly.

^ And that TRA arguement also forgets that “female only” spaces do not mean “cis women” spaces, but spaces for females of any (or no) gender identity.

Which raises the interesting point that since at any point in time a female toilet block, for example, might happen to be occupied by some trans men and NBs but not cis women, why would a trans woman even regard it as a woman’s space in the first place

They will of course conveniently ignore the far closer parallel of the oppression of female people by male people, and the clear statistics showing the social and physical risks and disempowerment females still face from males.

Well quite.

I can't remember the other flavours.

I mean wtf tbh.

I'm sorry, curry flavoured condoms are just wrong.

Lolol maybe.
The kids asked once I was erm...

What really fucked me off was when hiv/aids was a massive concern.

Many pubs took out the machine with pads tampons and put in a condom machine.

Not both which would have been fine obv.

How many women are more likely to need curry flavoured condoms than a tampon.

I've been in plenty of women's bogs with machines with Tampax tampons and yes condoms

Ooooooohhhhhh i seeeeeeee

Ive seen toothpaste! Not condoms…im obviously in the wrong toilets, or (and this is much more likely) completely unobservant

ACLU were the ones who went to court to stop women's rights groups finding out how many males in women's prisons weren't they?

Can anyone remember?

The women front for the men as it looks better to the general public, then everyone wonders how things like Wii Spa happen.

It’s so bloody transparent, if you’ve got your eyes open! And people are waking up, but slowly because the trans lobby so cleverly linked itself with the LGB movement via Stonewall.

This little Unherd post about the ACLU gives some sense of where they've gone so wrong, and I think gives a link to the larger expose done by the NYT a few months ago.

unherd.com/thepost/the-aclu-turns-against-free-speech/

It's really good that so many places now have a parent and child toilet with facilities for baby changing.

In John Lewis they even have ones with a normal toilet and a baby one! So you can sit and pee next to each other if that's your thing

The most basic difference in needs with public toilets or those in offices theatres etc etc.

Is that women need MORE and often there aren't enough so we have to queue. We need all cubicles. And sanitary bins.

While men like to have cubicles and urinals because urinals are quick n easy and give more provision. And if the ones that don't like them can use a cubicle.

I've been in plenty of women's bogs with machines with Tampax tampons and yes condoms.

Never seen hair straighteners and really that's so trivial. It's hardly a good deciding factor in which bogs are for who 🙄

Is Catherine suggesting baby changing should be in women's loos because changing babies is something women should do rather than men?

I can't say I've ever seen things like hair straighteners in a public washroom/changeroom.

I have seen them in semi-private kinds of places occasionally, but usually that is because there is demand for them, which is to say users have asked for them and so they've been placed, or the users themselves have left them. I don't really see this as some kind of gendered discrimination.

Blibbyblobby 's post about opting out but not being able to opt in I thought was an excellent one to keep in mind!

Baby change rooms are usually entirely separate with a lock- for either parent.
Great posts @Artichokeleaves and @OldCrone
As for sex and the 'association' thing- nah thanks
Sex not gender

And yes OldCrone, at least in the UK we have largely won the battle against changing facilities only being in the women's loo. Maybe other places are behind.

For example, changing tables are often just found in women's toilets, condom machines in men's, I have seen hair straighteners and machines dispensing hair brushes in the women's... these unequal arrangements are based on gender assumptions/expectations.

Wait, feminists protest against this sort of gender stereotyped assumption, and genderists insist that gender stereotypes are nothing to do with gender identity too. So neither side would think gender stereotyped provision was a good idea.

I don't know why we can't just have unisex loos (the former men's) for men and everyone who doesn't think things should be sorted by sex, and keep women's loos for female sexed people who want it. At least as an interim measure where there is not yet resource to add separate third spaces for people who prefer or are happy with unisex. It's generally women who are excluded or disadvantaged by lack of single sex provision so that seems the best compromise.

Of course toilets are gendered spaces. For example, changing tables are often just found in women's toilets, condom machines in men's, I have seen hair straighteners and machines dispensing hair brushes in the women's... these unequal arrangements are based on gender assumptions/expectations.

I'm surprised at this list of examples. Aren't changing tables usually in a separate baby changing area so that fathers can use them too? I can't remember the last time I saw one in a women's toilet. I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong about this, as I may just have not noticed them.

I'm sure there are condom machines in some women's toilets, and I have never seen hair straighteners and hair brush dispensers.

The main difference is that there are machines for sanitary protection in women's toilets along with disposal bins. Sex, not gender.

Blibbyblobby What a brilliant solution! Wonder what sensible, coherent argument the TRAs could make against it. I'm sure they'll come up with something, probably starting with the frailty of "assigned at birth" sex determination ..............