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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sonia Appleby has been awarded damages

133 replies

flowerpootle · 04/09/2021 18:08

It's in The Times. With this and Wi Spa I feel like the house of cards is falling...

Gender identity clinic whistleblower wins damages for ‘vilification’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0f17622c-0da0-11ec-8be5-c970b7541460?shareToken=1b12651b6fe1f39a862e3020bcc6f2a5

OP posts:
OvaHere · 06/09/2021 16:22

Very long twitter thread breaking down the details of the judgement.

twitter.com/JLCederblom/status/1434844646287552517

shesellsseacats · 06/09/2021 00:01

The NHS is currently reviewing GIDS. I assume this will feed into it?

What's the scope of the review, and does it have any teeth, does anyone know?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/09/2021 23:11

If a school gets safeguarding wrong they they instantly "fail" their Ofsted and get put into a category that requires improvement ,That's how seriously safeguarding in schools is viewed.
Yet this exceptionally vulnerable group of children are being treated by a service already identified as having significant problems and now evidenced failures in safeguarding practice but nothing seems to happen?

LizzieSiddal · 05/09/2021 22:37

Yes, Polly Carmichael features heavily in the ruling, and not in a positive way:
drive.google.com/file/d/1JNpwp5aDrVwAe1VcG6vSxqVRouO1bdZ_/view

Thanks you for posting the link Stella. It will be interesting to watch what happens next at the Tavi. After this ruling where their main Safeguarding lead was sidelined, so that children were not being safeguarded, numerous clinicians resigning and a damming inspection report, how the heck is PC still in their job? It’s an absolute scandal.

donquixotedelamancha · 05/09/2021 22:30

There is finally a (very good) article about this on the BBC. Thing is, it seems completely hidden.

I've put a thread about how hard it is to find here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4341610-How-BBC-news-articles-work?watched=1

Please feel free to explain if I'm being dumb, either way the article is worth a read.

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 05/09/2021 20:55

Oh fantastic news! Well done Sonia. A brave and principled woman if ever there was one.
I'm glad I contributed to her crowdfunder,its shameful that the NHS forced her into having to go to a tribunal for purely doing her job.

StellaAndCrow · 05/09/2021 14:43

@LizzieSiddal

Such fantastic news!

I’m disappointed that in The Times article, Polly Carmichael is not mentioned, I wonder if she is in the ruling? Her evidence to the tribunal was quite bizarre.

Yes, Polly Carmichael features heavily in the ruling, and not in a positive way: drive.google.com/file/d/1JNpwp5aDrVwAe1VcG6vSxqVRouO1bdZ_/view
highame · 05/09/2021 14:38

I wonder if this comes under the remit of Vicky Ford, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families at the Department for Education. More likely to be Sajiid Javid and I can't find a specific minister

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/09/2021 13:54

There really should be an inquiry (there won't be) into how adult lobbyists have managed to have such an extreme impact on the Tavistock that they not only push unethical untested medication at children but also abandon safeguarding on a whim.
Maybe there's a role for the LocalChildren Safeguarding Board / Safeguarding Partners? They're meant to be multi agency and there is now clear evidence that safeguarding very vulnerable children has been openly undermined?

GreyhoundG1rl · 05/09/2021 13:29

Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 05/09/2021 13:13

It's on the main page of BBC news app now too!

This is such good news that Sonia has been "vindicated" and I have so much respect and admiration for her. I feel a lot of anger though that this has actually had to go through all this in the first place and the vindication only fuels the anger in a "it was so obvious that she shouldn't have been treated like this" manner.

If that makes any sense! I am having an extremely grumpy day anyway but sure others may feel like this too).

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/09/2021 13:06

I am so relieved to see this. Vulnerable young people must be safeguarded when facing life changing decisions. The level of groupthink at GIDS sounds terrifying.

OldCrone · 05/09/2021 12:36

What alternatives are there?

The best alternative would be better funding and availability of mental health services for children to finds the causes of their distress that leads them to believe there might be something wrong with their bodies.

Heidi1982 · 05/09/2021 12:21

@highame

Another reason for the 'low award' is the Sonia is still in her job. Sonia had good support from colleagues (can't remember the name of the psychologist) which would have helped her get through this. Also this is specific and about damage to her reputation

and.....Webberley gets a mention with what she described as “rogue medics and the political expectations of the national service”, as well as splits within the team. Grin

If they appeal, then it's our money they're wasting, not theirs.

Well done Sonia

The big awards of damages in employment tribunal cases come from when someone has lost their job and is able to claim for significant amounts of future loss of earnings, which would include pension contributions etc. The purpose of those damages is to put the person in the position they would have been in, so if they were a high earner this could be a significant sun.

Damages for loss of reputation, which is what Sonia has been awarded, are likely to be lower as they are a rough estimate of the financial equivalent to the damage inflicted.

It's been a long time since I was involved in any employment tribunal work but I think Sonia's award is a pretty high one for loss of reputation.

CatherinaJTV · 05/09/2021 11:46

@Clymene

Well done Sonia although what an awful and stressful time she has had.

How any parents can send their children to the Tavistock now I don't know. Any organisation that works with children should prioritise safeguarding. If it doesn't, quite simply, it can't keep children safe.

What alternatives are there?
QualityMarguerite · 05/09/2021 11:34

Yes Warrior - and a feminist issue.

On topic I agree that it’s amazing that Sonia is still there. That must have been uncomfortable but really shows her strength of character and purpose.

SpindleWhorl · 05/09/2021 11:29

Story still prominent in the Observer; the Guardian has dropped it down its website even further.

WarriorN · 05/09/2021 10:32

Fascinating none the less @QualityMarguerite

LizzieSiddal · 05/09/2021 10:00

I heard this on R4 news at 8am, it was the third news item and spoken about in some detail, including mentioning the Newsnight investigation. Cut to R4 news at 9am, not a single mention!
I want to know why it was removed.

QualityMarguerite · 05/09/2021 09:16

Wrong thread sorry

QualityMarguerite · 05/09/2021 09:15

As an aside yes to the person who asked about bm killing cancer cells. There is a protein compound that produces cell death I tumour cells. It’s called HAMLET have a google it’s fascinating.

Formula is great and safe milk but usually it’s formula advertising that shits on breastfeeding. Breastmilk is complex and individualised and influences the developing immune system. Parents should know the difference but he comfortable with their choices. I have children fed both ways - doing your best can look different.

There is a huge scandal though that prem babies don’t get bm, it’s life saving for them and any hospital that doesn’t prioritise this - they have hugely different rates of bf and very different approaches with hospitals with statistically similar intakes showing big differences - loses children to illnesses that can be prevented just by bm.

Datun · 05/09/2021 09:06

Another reason for the 'low award' is the Sonia is still in her job.

That's brilliant for the children being seen there. And even more admirable of Sonia that she's keeping going in what must be very difficult circumstances.

highame · 05/09/2021 09:05

David Bell was the phycologist

PronounssheRa · 05/09/2021 09:03

I wonder if preventing proper safeguarding will feature in the Hilary Cass review. The scope has a catch all bullet point which suggests it might

Any other relevant matters that arise during the course of the review.

highame · 05/09/2021 08:55

Another reason for the 'low award' is the Sonia is still in her job. Sonia had good support from colleagues (can't remember the name of the psychologist) which would have helped her get through this. Also this is specific and about damage to her reputation

and.....Webberley gets a mention with what she described as “rogue medics and the political expectations of the national service”, as well as splits within the team. Grin

If they appeal, then it's our money they're wasting, not theirs.

Well done Sonia