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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sonia Appleby has been awarded damages

133 replies

flowerpootle · 04/09/2021 18:08

It's in The Times. With this and Wi Spa I feel like the house of cards is falling...

Gender identity clinic whistleblower wins damages for ‘vilification’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0f17622c-0da0-11ec-8be5-c970b7541460?shareToken=1b12651b6fe1f39a862e3020bcc6f2a5

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ScreamingMeMe · 17/09/2021 21:09

Article in Community Care. The comments are interesting. They are not happy with SWE.

www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/09/14/nhs-trust-ordered-pay-social-worker-20000-whistleblowing-gender-identity-service/

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 07/09/2021 19:13

[quote rogdmum]Bayswater have done a Twitter thread on their experience of trying to engage with the Tavi, including copies of the correspondence between them and Paul Jenkins/Paul Burstow. Yet more evidence of the closed minded approach the Tavi takes

twitter.com/bayswatersg/status/1435203185912725504?s=21[/quote]
Wow, that's… really something.

rogdmum · 07/09/2021 13:07

Bayswater have done a Twitter thread on their experience of trying to engage with the Tavi, including copies of the correspondence between them and Paul Jenkins/Paul Burstow. Yet more evidence of the closed minded approach the Tavi takes

twitter.com/bayswatersg/status/1435203185912725504?s=21

highame · 07/09/2021 11:40

I wonder if anything will change. Over the years I have seen so many catastrophes in our public sector and so many times 'lessons will be learned' and they never are. Nothing ever changes. There has been so much bad press about this, but Polly Carmichael is still in her job, albeit without power and influence. What lessons can be learned if you just pat the wrongdoers on the head and say 'there, there, you were only doing your best, so we'll look after you and protect you from those nasty people' I'm bloody angry about all this - I blame the Unions, they are no friend to women

Datun · 07/09/2021 10:30

To anyone on the outside, it certainly looks as though they didn't want to be held accountable, because their behaviour was being heavily influenced by lobby groups. So Sonia Appleby's by-the-book requests for transparent records were to be resisted.

Beowulfa · 07/09/2021 10:22

Safeguarding lead expresses concerns about safeguarding and recordkeeping, and their employer considers them problematic? What a fucking shitshow.

Well done Sonia for maintaining your professional integrity in the face of such casual disregard for the safety of minors.

rogdmum · 07/09/2021 09:51

I think it’s more from living in a bubble of arrogance than spite- anyone who dares question is to be put in their place.

They all need to read the book “Mistakes Were Made: But Not by Me”.

SpindleWhorl · 07/09/2021 09:48

Just to remind ourselves what Sinha was responsible for, this is how GIDS smugly announced his review report of 2019 on its webpage:
___

"GIDS review
"The Tavistock and Portman has been delivering the Gender Identity Development Service for 30 years. The Trust is proud of its world-leading work in this field.

"The Trust has thoroughly investigated the concerns raised in Dr Bell's report. None of the concerns around safety or safeguarding were upheld by our Medical Director. The recommendations made by Dr Sinha mainly focused on standardising and evidencing our very thoughtful and personalised processes in a field where clinicians grapple daily with high levels of complexity, sparse evidence and great variety in the young people coming forward, their developmental stage, feelings, histories and hopes.

"The service prides itself in taking a perspective on issues of gender identity which is independent, open-minded and based on the needs of an individual young person. Our clinicians work thoughtfully with young people addressing complex issues and appropriately extending assessments on a case-by-case basis.

"We are disappointed this unsubstantiated report authored by individuals with no expertise in this field made its way to the Sunday Times and would urge caution about reproducing its content. It is also important to point out that the report presented hypothetical vignettes rather than actual case studies and does not reflect the practice of the Service. "
_

BBC Newsnight then got hold of the interview transcripts that Sinha would appeared to have ignored, and there also followed Keira Bell, the inspection, and now Sonia Appleby. And the Hilary Cass inquiry report is next.

Tibtom · 07/09/2021 09:43

So my reading is out of spite GIDS decided to ignore safeguarding of children rather than accept Sonia's input.

Tibtom · 07/09/2021 09:39

The Peter Principle:
people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "maximum level of incompetence": employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent
Though in the public sector where it is difficult to get rid of people, one way you can is to get them promoted away from your team.

rogdmum · 07/09/2021 09:39

He wrote this 8 years ago. Oh the irony of him becoming what he warned against.

www.hsj.co.uk/commissioning/lay-members-make-stronger-transparent-ccg-boards/5064089.article

SpindleWhorl · 07/09/2021 09:23

He is a psychiatrist with an MBA. Figures.

Here's his public Tavi bio:
__

"Dinesh Sinha
Medical Director

Dinesh Sinha joined the Trust in August 2018.

He has significant experience in the health service having held board level and senior leadership roles, including within his most recent trust and clinical commissioning organisations (CCGs).

He was previously associate medical director, head of service and consultant psychiatrist in psychotherapy at East London NHS Foundation Trust. He has held roles on several CCG governing bodies and continues to be involved in commissioning of health services.

Dinesh is a fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists and holds an MBA from Lancaster University Management School. He brings senior leadership experience and strategic focus in the delivery of high quality services."

rogdmum · 07/09/2021 08:44

It’s online now:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000zhjx/newsnight-06092021

The segment is round about the 25.30 mark. Anna Hutchinson was good.

I find it mind boggling that between the Bell judgement, the awful CQC report and now this, the Tavi are just doubling down and/or burying their heads in the sand. Why would any parent concerned about their gender distressed/dysphoric child take them to the Tavi?

I really hope Dinesh Sinha goes soon. I’ve watched him the the Board meetings and he comes across exactly as he comes across in the Appleby ruling: cold, process driven, controlling, dismissive. He seems to be the backbone to a lot of this but none of the focus ever seems to be on him.

Rhannion · 06/09/2021 23:53

@Hazycoffeek

This was just covered on Newsnight. I only caught the end of it.
The Newsnight piece was good and the report after it was excellent about the new abortion law in Texas , I think Emily Matiss would have liked to punch the smug misogynist bastard she interviewed. I think it will be on the BBC player
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 06/09/2021 23:17

Every time I read a statement of this type, I feel another sense of shock that this has been so widely normalised. Are these groups heavily political in other things?

NICE by default deals with a lot of political topics as part of its health and social care effectiveness work. NICE is currently in the midst of a political contretemps about the ME/CFS guidelines.

I'm loth for anyone to be cross examined as to whether their email signature is a carefully thought through political position or just something they adopted through preference falsification or #BeKind.

However, Caesar's Wife and Nolan principles prod me to think that it doesn't sit well with the appearance of impartiality if both the NHS and NICE have something that is a signal of tacit endorsement of this ideology. To me it highlights that both have cultures that condone compelled speech or some of the more dubious Stonewall Champion/Workplace Index practices.

I've just seen the piece about the NHS training on Glinner's substack and it's made me very uneasy. I've no idea what sort of training NICE provides for its staff.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/how-vital-nhs-funds-are-being-spent

Hazycoffeek · 06/09/2021 23:10

This was just covered on Newsnight. I only caught the end of it.

AnyOldPrion · 06/09/2021 22:26

NHS staff have been using their pronouns in their email signatures for so long that they scarcely register.

Within the last month, I've noticed that NICE staff are using them.

Every time I read a statement of this type, I feel another sense of shock that this has been so widely normalised. Are these groups heavily political in other things?

I guess to many outsiders, this would seem like a harmless, if odd, anomaly. It’s only when you see what’s happening legally that you realise it’s not harmless at all, but a sign of capitulation to an extreme ideological position.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 06/09/2021 20:09

Re: the Cass Review. I've been thinking about the NHS and NICE.

NHS staff have been using their pronouns in their email signatures for so long that they scarcely register.

Within the last month, I've noticed that NICE staff are using them.

I know that people are entirely capable of disregarding their own beliefs and delivering work that is impartial. I should think that both NICE and NHS staff also have to declare any COI or DOI in a topic when they work on it and in any meetings.

I'm wondering if the relevant staff have declared their belief in gender ideology as part of the COI or DOI for their work on this, particularly if they have a role in data collection or technical analysis.

I'm conflicted. I'd rather that they didn't ask people to state a belief or stance on this issue but I wonder if putting pronouns in the email signature etc. is taking a stance, IYSWIM. Hmm

NB: I don't know anything about the NHS or NICE's involvement in the Cass Review.

RedDogsBeg · 06/09/2021 18:39

Yes, Polly Carmichael features heavily in the ruling, and not in a positive way:
drive.google.com/file/d/1JNpwp5aDrVwAe1VcG6vSxqVRouO1bdZ_/view

Sonia was treated appallingly.

The attitude to and vilification of her by Garry Richardson and Dr Sinah is nothing short of bullying, nasty pieces of work the pair of them. The Judge certainly and quite rightly ripped both of them to shreds in the Judgement.

Let's just remember that Sonia's remit was to safeguard children and this is how she was treated and people wonder why there are so many hideous child abuse scandals in institutions that are meant to protect them, the attitude of those from GIDS criticised in the Judgement is why. Learnt lessons from previous scandals? Obviously not.

SpindleWhorl · 06/09/2021 18:35

It's horrific that children have been mutilated and endochrologically damaged by a bunch of lazy thinkers who sought their own bizarre validation through an illogical ideology. All within the NHS. Despite years of public warnings.

Sonia Appleby deserves a safeguarding award.

MonsignorMirth · 06/09/2021 18:32

That Twitter thread is well worth a read - here if you have trouble accessing Twitter
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1434844646287552517.html

I found the live tribunal a little confusing but this has helped a great deal.

shesellsseacats · 06/09/2021 17:34

@highame

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Letter-to-NHSEI_Dr-Hilary-Cass_Independent-Review.pdf

This is a letter from Dr Hilary Cass to John Stewart, National Director
Specialised Commissioning, NHS England and NHS Improvement. Dr Cass says her interim report will be out during the summer with the full report next year. Anyone seen anything.

When I read this letter, I was staggered by the total lack of anything like quality from, GIDS and they wonder why everyone was horrified. Dr Cass is having plenty of discussions with stakeholders, which, apart from young people with gender dysphoria, is bound to include Mermaids and I think their links to Gendered Intelligence are highly suspect. Cass requires lots of evidence, so any flim-flam shouldn't be tolerated. Fingers crossed

Hopefully they were waiting for this judgement and the interim report will be out soon... fingers crossed...
highame · 06/09/2021 17:32

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Letter-to-NHSEI_Dr-Hilary-Cass_Independent-Review.pdf

This is a letter from Dr Hilary Cass to John Stewart, National Director
Specialised Commissioning, NHS England and NHS Improvement. Dr Cass says her interim report will be out during the summer with the full report next year. Anyone seen anything.

When I read this letter, I was staggered by the total lack of anything like quality from, GIDS and they wonder why everyone was horrified. Dr Cass is having plenty of discussions with stakeholders, which, apart from young people with gender dysphoria, is bound to include Mermaids and I think their links to Gendered Intelligence are highly suspect. Cass requires lots of evidence, so any flim-flam shouldn't be tolerated. Fingers crossed

viques · 06/09/2021 16:58

Brilliant news. I am so sorry for her that she has had to go through this awful situation, but I am so grateful to her for her bravery and determination to see it through. Thanks to her many children’s future lives will be so much better and less distressing.

You are a queen among women Sonia.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 06/09/2021 16:44

[quote OvaHere]Very long twitter thread breaking down the details of the judgement.

twitter.com/JLCederblom/status/1434844646287552517[/quote]
That was very helpful, thank you.