"Rape doesn’t have to (and it mostly doesn’t) include violence. It’s often a mundane practice."

Whether it's rape or not, anti-carcerals are opposed to involving the law - even if somebody is in favour of legal intervention, the changes of a conviction are minimal and either way, there's a huge risk that your life will continue to be disrupted for years to come.

There's possibly a better risk-benefit to convincing yourself that it was just bad sex.

However, I'm feeling soiled that I've even attempted to steelman her argument for her and shall stop.

Not sure why everyone is so confused. Rape doesn't have to be physically violent to be rape. Her point is rape occurs all the time, in relationships, in hookups alike, and is brushed off as bad sex

Because we feel like if there was no physical violence or no knife pulled, then it's not valid. If consent is not given, that is rape, even in the absence of weapons or threats

Surely this is her point?

I don't think she's worded any of it well, and I'm not sure I can do any better.

But that's the impression I got, that she wants people to recognise that rape has many forms beyond the stereotype of a stranger in a dark alley. But again, I don't feel she's explained that well if that's what she is getting at.

Rape has to include penetration with a penis, that very act of penetrating someone’s body inches deep without consent is nothing but violence.

So, I don’t see how it cannot be violent, and be “mundane”. I think SHs tweet is literally in service to patriarchy, trying to make us think rape is mostly not violent, but mundane. As in a minor annoyance and we women should stop our complaining about it.

Germaine Greer talked about the same. The banality of rape in most instances. She was practically cancelled for it by people who hadnt even read what she had said properly

If I may be forgiven my own 'wrong generation' moment - this image

mobile.twitter.com/SuperMichelleHD/status/1433816620762271761/photo/1

It appears from this tweet discussion that I don't understand it. Would somebody please assist me? It's possible that I do understand it in the context of the headline for the piece and that the Twitter discussion is an interesting one about subverting it?

twitter.com/SuperMichelleHD/status/1433816620762271761?s=20

NB: the original article seems to be:

www.feministcurrent.com/2021/06/12/pride-month-is-no-longer-a-joyful-celebration-but-a-symbol-of-something-dark/

I think I understand the point she is trying to make but she's worded it fucking terribly.

I think she's trying to explain that if we only think of rape as the violent stranger jumping out of the bushes and raping you at knife point then you're missing out on supporting the women who are raped regularly within a long term relationship or who write off what they perceive as small violations of their boundaries and consent rather than see it for what it is.

Years ago when I worked in hospitality there was a horrendous case where a lady was raped in one of our hotel rooms. Because the lady was seen on cctv walking willingly in to the room then leaving later at a walking pace (not running) there was no conviction.

If that's the point she was trying to make then I welcome it but think it may need some further clarification. However I may have totally misunderstood her!

I’m really upset by what I have just read by this SH person. How dare she tell other women what rape is or isn’t? Aren’t the numbers of women who have the bravery and tenacity to come forward to report being raped already really small? Does she want rape victims to think - oh well, perhaps it was just bad sex??
I could weep with despair.

There are a lot of female academics with views similar to Sally's who somehow manage to sound less offensive on twitter. It's not her medium imo.

Thanks Kimikos . Pear shaped is right. That's a great shame, I thought someone was actually making a valid point about LTRs & unwanted sex.

WTAF????

I’m beyond horrified. Mundane?????

Younger academics are having their pensions thrashed - and here is a member with tenure, a secure position, with an astonishing social media profile that her university tacitly endorses, and being given gifts for doing a job that is part of her overall responsibilities.

I liked this reply, though I can’t tell whether it was ironic or the person really thinks Sally Hines is a parody account. It is hard to tell…

Stanley Budge
@stanley_budge
·
1h
Replying to
@sally_hines
I tire of these parody accounts trying to underline left-wing causes.

Bad sex is when a man is terrible at oral, not when he is a rapist.
An annoyance is when you're stuck in traffic, not when you're being assaulted.
Why is she tweeting this?

She must as well but she's doing nothing to help explain the valid points made by the second group or correct the invalid points by the first group.

She's Barry Hines daughter. Her dad wrote Kes ( well that's what someone on twitter said).
She's getting worse.

From her Twitter feed

I’m not a superstitious person but sometimes…The postie just dropped of the most gorgeous box of goodies from Advance HE as thanks for being part of the Athena Swan Transformation Charter working group, which now recognises sex/gender as a spectrum in HE

There's a thread on here about Athena Swan.

Sorry, just checked, it was a Swiss judge. The original sentence was a paltry four years and three months, reduced to a pathetic three years.

There's a real misunderstanding going on between those who say "rape is violence" and those who hear "it's only rape if he's also physically violent while doing it".

It's like the latter cannot understand that non-consensual means it is a violation by definition and therefore violence.

The latter group are focusing on traditional laws about rape, that typically contained reference to injuries received because the victim fought back or was brutally subdued to begin with, which often meant that victims who froze or complied had little recourse to justice. But that is not at all what we are saying.

That SH does not seek to clear up this misunderstanding but instead uses it to stir up controversy suggests to me that is the aim.

Unfortunately if you click through her follow-up posts it goes a bit pear - shaped

I find it hard to put into words how much I dislike SH and her shitty takes.

I don’t actually understand what message she’s trying to convey (that sometimes rape isn’t a big deal? Or the opposite - that ‘bad sex’ can actually be rape and that is a big deal?) and the second sentence of the second tweet is especially opaque

I think she might be trying to say that what might be treated even by the woman as "bad sex" is actually rape.

E.g perhaps in a relationship where one person doesn’t want sex but will go ahead to be nice/ it's not a big deal/ it won't physically hurt/ won't take long / is that genuine consent ? If not then it's rape?

If this happens night after night does the woman in that situation realise that what is an annoyance / bad sex is actually rape?

But I'm not sure that's what she's saying.

I know what she's probably trying to get at (i hope) but Gardener is right, she's not communicated it effectively. Rape within a LTR can be mundane. I've been there. But obviously that's not the whole story. She needs to expand on her point.

This is very Sally. A charitable interpretation would be that she is so piercingly focused on her subject that she is constantly exploring the hoch-academic implications of ideas and doesn’t realise that a public forum strips the nuance from these explorations. A less charitable interpretation would wonder about patterns of vile misogyny and lesbophobia as well as noting that many posts are later in the day and into the evening and perhaps cocktail hour at Sheffield is becoming earlier.