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Original poster

Christine Mboma wins Diamond League 200m

263 replies

NotBadConsidering · 03/09/2021 22:25

Christine Mboma is male. Shericka Jackson 2nd. Dina Asher-Smith came 3rd.

www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/58442621

Obviously no mention of the controversy around a male sex person running in women’s athletics by the brief summary by the BBC Hmm.

Previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4312328-Female-Namibian-runners-change-events-due-to-too-high-testosterone

At each series the prize money is as follows:

www.diamondleague.com/rules/

1st 10,000 USD
2nd 6000
3rd 3500

Allowing this male to continue to run is costing women thousands of dollars each time Angry.

OP posts:
Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 03/09/2021 23:52

Firstly, it’s a presumption that these athletes only find out late. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume they’ve always known they’re male but are competing in women’s competition anyway. It’s part of the narrative that people would have you believe that these athletes are victims. No one knows because the Namibian authorities are not being honest.

Second, there is a clear solution. If you’re male - and that includes males with DSDs, like Mboma - you can’t compete in women’s competition.

Women and girls don’t owe these athletes anything. Not kindness, not consideration, not debate, because to do so only leads to obfuscation and lessening of the protection for women’s and girls’ sport. That’s why Semenya was allowed to take Diamond League prize money, medals and sponsorship for 10 years; there was 10 years of “kindness” and consideration of what to do. Those women who lost out, you’re telling those women they should be kind? It won’t get them their money back.

Stop it now for Mboma with clear boundaries, so the cumulative loss for women doesn’t become another 10 years. That can’t be done with “kindness”.

OP posts:
Pendhxa · 03/09/2021 23:45

Well you are certainly entitled to your point of view and to state it however you like. But in my opinion, it makes the discussion far more confrontational and therefore less productive. A solution is needed for all athletes - female and intersex.

How bloody shocking for people with this condition to grow up as female and then to find out they have no uterus or ovaries but instead have internal testes. I actually do think a bit of kindness is needed in dealing with a person who has suffered in this way.

334bu · 03/09/2021 23:40

You are correct Pendhxa our disdain should be aimed in this case , at the cynical exploitation of this young athlete by their national association. They should never have found themselves in this position.

Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 03/09/2021 23:39

And there is a simple solution to this issue. Only females in women’s and girls sport. Males cannot enter and compete, no matter how they’ve been raised.

OP posts:
Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 03/09/2021 23:38

“This male” is an accurate description, and distinguishes the discussion from the other males in women’s competition, like Francine Niyonsaba.

And I DO have disdain. Well done on picking it up, I wasn’t trying to hide it. I have disdain for the authorities that allow this to happen, the press for failing to report the truth, and for the individuals who continue to compete despite knowing their biological condition, like Semenya did for 10 years. I will not apologise for showing disdain. I don’t care about being nice, or having a kind discussion. I care about protecting women’s sport for females. The feelings of males who have difficulty finding a place to compete isn’t my concern.

OP posts:
Pendhxa · 03/09/2021 23:31

I know that Mbomba is male, but I still think "this male" and the way you have used it in your OP is dripping with distain. And therefore not a constructive way to talk about someone who grew up as female and encourage solutions to this issue.

334bu · 03/09/2021 23:25

I agree that Christine did not ask to be born with this condition, but I also think that you are incorrect regarding her VSD condition. She is unable to compete in certain events because she shares the same condition as Caster Semenya and therefore will have, like Caster , gone through a male puberty. However, I do agree that athletes with these conditions have to be treated with kindness and the first thing their athletic associations should do , is not put them forward in an incorrect category where their conditions will be exposed to worldwide scrutiny and conjecture.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 03/09/2021 23:22

Yes but…at puberty, given the condition this athlete has, it would have become clear they were male. At which point they are a mediocre male athlete taking prizes from phenomenal female athletes. So no, I have no capacity to be sympathetic about their athletic prowess. I am hugely sympathetic that they were born with a DSD.

Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 03/09/2021 23:22

Mboma is male. Mboma has 46XY chromosomes, testes and androgen sensitivity, otherwise Mboma wouldn’t be subject to this particular ruling, which only applies to those individuals with these criteria. Mboma has been through male puberty. Mboma has male skeletal structure, male muscle mass, male cardiac output, male VO2max, male pelvic angles, no uterus and has never had to deal with fluctuations in oestrogen or progesterone affecting performance and has never had a period.

I will refer to Mboma as male for these reasons. I will not refer to Mboma as female because of a medical clerical error or to “be kind”. There’s nothing kind about women being deprived of success because of a male winning their races. Mboma didn’t chose to be born with this condition but chooses to continue to compete against females despite now knowing about this condition.

OP posts:
Pendhxa · 03/09/2021 23:13

This does need to be addressed but I think it's uncalled for to refer to Christine Mboma as "this male". She certainly was thought to be female at birth and until puberty (and beyond perhaps and now?) lived as a female. I imagine that she considers herself female due to the above two points. I do understand that she likely has male chromosomes but she did not develop into a sexually mature male due hormone insensitivity. I do think there should be categories made for athletes in this situation as she has clearly put in the training and athletics is her life. I think it would be more constructive to try to work this out without just dismissing someone like Christine as "this male". The current situation is definitely unfair to female athletes so it needs addressing urgently, but sensitively and kindly. Because Christine did not choose to be born with this condition.

334bu · 03/09/2021 22:58

Given Christine's family circumstances $10000 is a considerable prize and must present a considerable incentive for athletes with vsd conditions, especially those from poorer countries.

Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 03/09/2021 22:45

Because World Athletics didn’t have the data to say conclusively to the Court of Arbitration for Sport that there was an advantage in other distances, only those middle distance events. They will now be able to use these victories to demonstrate that eventually, but women miss out in the meantime.

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EndoplasmicReticulum · 03/09/2021 22:30

Also noticed Francine Nyonsaba won the 5,000m. What is the reasoning behind banning these athletes from some distances but not others?