Page 2 | Quick reassurance needed please

BlackAlys · 2021-09-02T07:29:24+00:00

Return to school today and pupils toilets have changed to unisex toilets. This surely isn't legal? Furious.

titchy · 03/09/2021 11:37

Well if there's no sanitary bins in what used to be the boys, then those are not facilities that girls can use. So the boys now have 8 cubicles and the girls have 4

trippingflip · 03/09/2021 11:34

I'm guessing there'll bins in there by Monday as the loos will be blocked with sanitary wear today by lunch time...
Not realising girls and boys are different is about to have a financial impact...

Justme56 · 03/09/2021 10:20

OP - I think as a starting point you need to make the head aware of the issues of no sanitary bins in the previously described 'boys' toilets. If they are to be used by both boys and girls, where exactly are the girls supposed to put their used sanitary products other than down the toilet? Does he have a plumber on 24 hour call out to unblock them? Without them he is pretty much keeping one side for the boys and the other for the girls so not unisex (or whatever he wants to call them) at all.

Whatwouldscullydo · 03/09/2021 09:45

Girls who had started periods were allowed to use visitor toilet

Thats ridiculous. Girls are 50 percent of the population and should have access to more than one toilet in an entire school if they have their periods. What an awful set up

Threadbaretoe · 03/09/2021 09:12

This happened at my kids' school last September. Both of them hated it, as did their friends. I emailed the head to ask if he was aware how badly the change had landed with the pupils.
He emailed me a week later to say he had checked it out and it was unpopular so they had reverted back to single sex but kept 2 blocks of loos gender neutral.
There was no mention of anything else. No ideologies raised, just a simple exchange about what the students wanted.
If most of the students wanted mixed sex loos, I'd have been happy with just a couple of single sex ones being the solution.

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 08:48

I don't think I'm going to get anywhere - there are still single sex areas around the site - apart from pointing out the added time necessary for those who want to access the single sex. Also, I could ask if there are plans to extend this mixed sex provision for all toilets?

OP posts:

FemaleAndLearning · 03/09/2021 08:48

So they haven't increased the capacity for girls as the toilets on one side are for boys only as they have no sanitary bins. It's a bizarre move. All the girls should boycott this facility and use the single sex facilities.
The head sounds like an arrogant sexist and possible racist if he has no understanding of the needs of his female pupils of certain religions.

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 07:34

Trying to pen an email to my headship team and getting nowhere. Don't want to go full on, but want to calmly ask a few question. Help!

OP posts:

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 07:21

Have just checked - no sanitary wear in the former boys toilets.

OP posts:

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 07:21

@123ZYX

Do the toilets that used to be boys just have cubicles?

They are identical to the girls. As you walk in, there's a run of 4 toilets and opposite those, there are a run 4 sinks together and mirrors.

OP posts:

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 07:20

@Aparallaxia

OP, this may strike some as cynical... but are there any girls from conservative religious households in your school? Muslims, Jews, etc.? If there's one thing that schools will run a mile from, it's appearing racist, and if the parents of those girls kick up a stink about their children not being able to access toilets for girls alone, and complain that this is discriminatory, then things may happen very quickly. I know it's not the grounds you (or we) would like, but the end-result would be.

Thank you. Yes, a high number of our pupils are Muslims, some Hindus, smaller number of Jewish pupils

OP posts:

123ZYX · 03/09/2021 07:08

Do the toilets that used to be boys just have cubicles?

Aparallaxia · 03/09/2021 06:55

OP, this may strike some as cynical... but are there any girls from conservative religious households in your school? Muslims, Jews, etc.? If there's one thing that schools will run a mile from, it's appearing racist, and if the parents of those girls kick up a stink about their children not being able to access toilets for girls alone, and complain that this is discriminatory, then things may happen very quickly. I know it's not the grounds you (or we) would like, but the end-result would be.

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 06:21

Know the guidance is clear on the differences between mixed and unisex toilets, but in terms of semantics, my Head will just shrug and say 'no difference'.

How can I make the mixed sex toilet aspect count?

Pupils coming in today. I know what the girls will say to me.

OP posts:

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 05:49

@NiceGerbil

Op were they girls or boys before?

@NiceGerbil

They were both, back to back and separated by a wall, different entrances.

Still separated by that wall only 2 great big red gingerbread 'unisex' signs stuck over the existing male and female signs

OP posts:

Original poster

BlackAlys · 03/09/2021 05:46

@NiceGerbil

Not RTFT y but will.

Do they all have sanitary bins in?

If not I'd say that discriminates against the girls. So even though girls need more than boys they've built some and set them up for boys.

Will count first thing today. Good point.

OP posts:

Clymene · 03/09/2021 00:45

@NortieTortie

My school toilets were like this 10+ years ago. I don't think it's a big deal and surely not against any laws

RTFT

NortieTortie · 03/09/2021 00:43

My school toilets were like this 10+ years ago. I don't think it's a big deal and surely not against any laws

NiceGerbil · 02/09/2021 23:54

Op were they girls or boys before?

NiceGerbil · 02/09/2021 23:54

Re the if there's single sex and mixed sex then that's that's the third space asked for so what's the problem.

Many schools don't have enough provision and there is limited time to use them.

Loads of schools are also a bit of a labyrinth/ v big/ in different blocks so to go to find a single sex one could be a trek in a limited amount of time.

So depending on where and school it could be a bugger for those wanting single sex.

trippingflip · 02/09/2021 23:52

My experience with schools, albeit primary level, is that they never back down during policy implementation especially if push back is from parents...
Somehow pushback has always made me enemy number one, regardless of topic. Only the court of public opinion ever changes things in schools.

NiceGerbil · 02/09/2021 23:41

Our primary school did this they didn't have much room and worried about loitering/ bullying.

They rebuilt and had cubicles in space with hand washing in middle and open to corridor.

Girls who had started periods were allowed to use visitor toilet.

I was ok with that.

NiceGerbil · 02/09/2021 23:39

Not RTFT y but will.

Do they all have sanitary bins in?

If not I'd say that discriminates against the girls. So even though girls need more than boys they've built some and set them up for boys.

LobsterNapkin · 02/09/2021 23:31

@Rattysparklebum

My local secondary has done this in the main corridor, 2 blocks of toilets facing each other with back to back basins in the middle, totally open and part of the corridor.

tbh it works quite well for the kids who use them at break time, there are literally hundreds of kids and staff walking within a couple of feet, reducing the risk of bullying and problem behaviour as everyone can see every thing and everyone and it’s really busy.

I also think children are just as likely to get physically or verbally abused by their own sex so single sex spaces are not necessarily safer

I've seen toilets like this, particularly for very young children. Essentially the stalls and sink area are more or less open with little screening from the corridor or classroom. This is great with young kids where the teachers may need to supervise more closely, but I can't really see it working all that well for older children who tend to want more privacy, often even in the sink area.

Clymene · 02/09/2021 23:26

@AfternoonToffee:

SSA website:

In June 2017, the Department of Education issued guidance on ‘Gender separation in mixed schools’ which states:
‘It is permissible for toilet and boarding accommodation facilities to be separate as they are captured under existing statutory exceptions. Separate toilet and washing facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010’.

So separate toilet and washing facilities.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/singlesextoiletsfactsheet.pdf

That is how the government interprets the law. If schools are getting it wrong, they need to put it right. It is unacceptable for girls to have to deal with their periods at mixed sex sinks.