Page 15 | The look at me of pronouns

Ritascornershop · 2021-09-01T17:14:30+00:00

Recently I’ve had two interactions that have startled me. One was with legal aid (I’m in Canada) where the young lawyer rang me and said “Hello this is Thomas from xx, my practice is x and my pronouns are he/him.” Just in case I thought someone with a male voice and whose name was Thomas might like me, when speaking to him, to refer to him in the third person as she/her. I laughed and pointed out that as I was speaking directly to him, his pronouns wouldn’t be relevant. The other interaction was after I’d written my member of parliament’s office asking for an answer on something I couldn’t get a Ministry to answer me on. 3 months later I finally got a reply suggesting I contact that Ministry 🙄 and signing off “Benjamin Lastname, he/him, Useless Twat, Your MP’s office”. I replied telling him it was useless information that should not have taken 3 months to cough up, and I didn’t care what his pronouns were and I wasn’t going to proffer mine as doing so for women tended to increase sexism in professional interactions. Is this as rampant in the UK? It just seems so unprofessional and so “look at me!” I’ve no interest in how they hope people refer to them when they’re not there, I just want answers to my questions that they are qualified to provide.

FrancescaContini · 02/09/2021 11:06

@AnneLovesGilbert

DSD12 has a friend who’s non binary and literally announces her pronouns for the day each morning. She sometimes feels more masculine and sometimes more feminine and this rigmarole seems to make her happier. The expectations on those around you to prop up the belief system/fantasy/neurosis are really unreasonable but their group are constantly bedecked in be kind t shirts so it was inevitable something like this would happen.

I logged in to LinkedIn for the first time in ages a week ago and the first thing it asked me for was my pronouns so I think lots of people just do it without thinking.

I found myself browsing a job ad which talked about the company including five or six things around gender and gender presentation but didn’t mention sex. That sort of illegal codswallop and the pronoun compulsion are making it easier to avoid daft organisations.

This child sounds absolutely tedious. My teens wouldn't stand for this, and would recognise it for what it is - attention-seeking, drama queenish etc. They would also ask - what do you mean, you feel more masculine?What does this actually MEAN?

The child should go off on a bike ride / walk a dog / do some baking / help with the housework / meet friends for a milkshake or whatever / interact with people outside the internet / stop being so self-absorbed.

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 11:02

They can (usually) say no I guess...

Regularsizedrudy · 02/09/2021 11:02

Just want to point out that lots of people that do this are just doing what they’ve been told by their managers/hr so please don’t direct your frustration directly at them!

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:49

*news article

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:47

So close... so close... but no cigar CPS

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:46

I can answer that! I saw this in a new article about some loathsome person who was found guilty of a homophobic rant... here’s a clue: women ain’t it...

Feelingmardy · 02/09/2021 10:41

I don’t feel safe around people who wail ‘I feel unsaaaaaaaaafe!’ every two minutes about things that shouldn’t make any sane person feel... ‘unsafe’. I assume they are unstable and possibly likely to lash out if disagreed with.

Agree and I genuinely feel unsafe in a world which does not recognise sex-based oppression. So who's feeling safe are we going to prioritise?

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:38

I worked for an Irish organisation and I only knew one woman who amended her name spelling because she got fed up spelling it out. Everyone else just went with it.

The only ones I found tricky were Welsh place names.

RocketPanda · 02/09/2021 10:37

Now granted, some Irish names are hard to pronounce especially when coupled with surnames but we're not savages and are more than fine giving a quick breakdown of pronunciation .
I do snigger slightly when I see wokey wokesters on twitter with their name in Irish which clearly comes from their sex and not the thoughts in their head.

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:34

Sheesh. For some reason a while back there was a spate of people who assumed that I was Japanese because of my name (obv people who hadn’t spoken to me or knew me personally).

Maybe I should have had

Kong fae Glasgae, wee missus, an’ no Japanese.

DucksFlyTogether · 02/09/2021 10:28

@RocketPanda

Our point about star signs is they mean absolutely nothing. Most people think the time of year of your birth dictating your personality is utter tosh. Very like pronouns. Meaningless drivel.

Although I often think about making public an email sent from head office advising my particular office about our names. I come from an Irish speaking area of Ireland as do most of my colleagues and therefore our names are in Irish. The translation denotes my sex ( Mary Daughter of Smith for example). Apparently we should have English names that are easier to pronounce and not triggering to those who are gender diverse. This coming from a British company does not come across well at all.

Rocket Panda I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, they want you to use a pronoun because they can't be bothered to accept your heritage or even look in to it?

As a Welsh millennial I've no idea what's going on in the world around me these days! The WAG seem to be smoking the wacky backy and have gone off the deep end.

RocketPanda · 02/09/2021 10:23

Our point about star signs is they mean absolutely nothing. Most people think the time of year of your birth dictating your personality is utter tosh. Very like pronouns. Meaningless drivel.

Although I often think about making public an email sent from head office advising my particular office about our names. I come from an Irish speaking area of Ireland as do most of my colleagues and therefore our names are in Irish. The translation denotes my sex ( Mary Daughter of Smith for example). Apparently we should have English names that are easier to pronounce and not triggering to those who are gender diverse. This coming from a British company does not come across well at all.

Feelingmardy · 02/09/2021 10:12

@EarthSight

I'm a millennial who works for a company in the U.K. About 70% of people in it have pronouns in their email signatures. I don't, and will not, and cannot.

Most people do it because they really don't know what it's really about, and I really think some people would prefer it that way so that everyone will play along without asking questions. I can bet most of the women putting she/her have never given a thought to the fact that they're actually reinforcing gender stereotypes. They think 'Oh I'll just put this in my email because everyone else does, and I'm a she/her anyway'. They probably think all it is is a reference to the fact that they're women and feel comfortable in their sex......but that's not what it means. There's a whole ideology behind it.

I had to explain to a friend the other day why I refuse to do it. Her kneejerk reactions was 'but it's important to be inclusive and support those who are gender questioning, isn't it?'. I replied yes, but that I wasn't going to use that ideology to define my own identity, because of a myriad of reasons which I explained. I don't think she had once thought about any of those issues and it certainly made her think.....not for long I suspect, because once you start doubting it it then requires a lot of further thinking which is clearly a lot of hard work for most busy people!

So glad to see a millenial with this position. I could not agree more. Most people don't think much about this and are just wanting to signal how inclusive they are. They have not thought through the implications or taken responsibility for the damage they are doing through their very binary thinking. Thank you for being brave enough to question this stuff directly.

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:11

And ask if she was of Chinese heritage (you can imagine it said in that tone - shi-hrrr) or whether she was appropriating their culture and language?

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 10:10

See - I would so that!

Mochudubh · 02/09/2021 09:58

@hamstersarse

DS16 started college today and someone introduced themselves to him as “Chloe. She/her”

I'd have assumed she was telling me her full name and refer to her as Chloe Shearer for the rest of the year.

MistandMud · 02/09/2021 09:50

Broken down at night by the side of the motorway? A colleague has a heart attack in front of them?

Both times, the person's sex is more relevant than their gender. (Or do motorway recovery services no longer prioritise 'lone females'?)

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 09:45

@DucksFlyTogether

Star signs on E-mails wtf.

I'm a Capricorn the most stubborn, competitive and achievement based star sign. I'd rather not have that on my e-mail. People will assume I'm a cunt 😂 I mean I can be but don't like to divulge it on my work e-mail signature 🤦🏻‍♀️

I’m going to use my Chinese calendar zodiac then.

🐔

AnneLovesGilbert · 02/09/2021 09:40

DSD12 has a friend who’s non binary and literally announces her pronouns for the day each morning. She sometimes feels more masculine and sometimes more feminine and this rigmarole seems to make her happier. The expectations on those around you to prop up the belief system/fantasy/neurosis are really unreasonable but their group are constantly bedecked in be kind t shirts so it was inevitable something like this would happen.

I logged in to LinkedIn for the first time in ages a week ago and the first thing it asked me for was my pronouns so I think lots of people just do it without thinking.

I found myself browsing a job ad which talked about the company including five or six things around gender and gender presentation but didn’t mention sex. That sort of illegal codswallop and the pronoun compulsion are making it easier to avoid daft organisations.

Livpool · 02/09/2021 09:33

I might add Gemini though - "will talk shit about you while being nice to your face" 😂

DucksFlyTogether · 02/09/2021 09:32

Star signs on E-mails wtf.

I'm a Capricorn the most stubborn, competitive and achievement based star sign. I'd rather not have that on my e-mail. People will assume I'm a cunt 😂 I mean I can be but don't like to divulge it on my work e-mail signature 🤦🏻‍♀️

MatildaIThink · 02/09/2021 09:30

If people feel the need to stick pronouns on profiles/emails it is usually a good sign that they are people that no one sane should interact with.

Livpool · 02/09/2021 09:26

I work in IT and it is hard enough as a woman. I have an obviously female name so like hell am I adding pronouns. My male colleagues already have an easier ride

FrancescaContini · 02/09/2021 09:22

I, not thanks

FrancescaContini · 02/09/2021 09:21

@RocketPanda

Pronouns are creeping in on work emails. The office I work out of ( big company, lots of offices, some in very woke places) have put our star signs as pronouns along with a list of traits associated with that sign eg Taurus/Taurean/reliable/level headed/stubborn. I think it tells far more about the person I am emailing.

That’s absolutely beyond fucking stupid.

I go to work to do my job as per my work contract. Thanks couldn’t give a toss about anything about my colleagues’ personal lives - sexuality, star sign, what colour socks they wear on a Tuesday - I’m only interested in their professionalism.

It’s meaningless, empty nonsense.