The look at me of pronouns

If someone states their pronouns, I sort of assume they must be the opposite sex to what the pronouns suggest...... I think I'm wrong but I can't help it. I've gone on some very confused mad googling expeditions trying to work out the sex someone is. Probably says as much about me as them!

I worked in an office that had a stalker. He had a real hate of women and would walk into the building and into our office to scream (right in your face) at the women working there (never the men). The police helpfully suggested double locks and a peephole but did agree that we needed to ensure he didn’t access the office (or other areas of the work where he would lurk) and we shouldn’t be alone in there. So that was definitely a feeling of being unsafe.

I have worked in places where people have had screaming fights (some got pretty nasty and rather personal) but I didn’t feel unsafe (a bit embarrassed for them).

Nowadays people ‘feel unsafe’ if anyone doesn’t agree with them or says something they done like. Or perceive some sort of insult. It’s bonkers.

My workplace just put out a survey for staff, as the local mandates about masks and social distancing are about to change as we reach a certain level of vaccination. The purpose was to see if staff felt safe relaxing these at work, and that maybe they would still require us to do certain things based on the staff's feelings about safety.

My question was, is how people feel about this actually the right bar to use? Does feeling safe actually need to reflect reality? Life isn't totally safe, how close to we have to be to complete safety? If for over a year the press has been emphasizing to people that they are unsafe, doesn't that tend to affect their perceptions? Etc.

Then there are actually lots of workplaces that are by their nature physically unsafe. In workplaces that are mentally challenging, or intellectually challenging, even if we accepted the idea that this is a kind of "safety" why should people have an absolute right to safety that doesn't exist with regard to physical safety?

@astoundedgoat

Ugh, I was going to add more to that post, but never mind! :)

What does ‘gender critical’ actually mean? Let’s take a second to think...

Do you believe girls are made of sugar and spice and all things nice?
Do you believe that boys are made of slugs and snails and puppy dogs tails?
Are girls pre-programmes to like pink, glitter and dollies?
Are boys pre-programmed to like monster trucks and action man?
Is their such a thing as a soul? And if so, is god infallible?
Is sex the same a gender?
Is gender just a series of ‘rules’ that are pretty rigid and harmful (so a girl is told that she can’t play with the toy car and told to go and help mummy make dairy cakes)?
Should women be allowed to go out to work?
Should men be allowed to take parental leave and be stay at home parents?
Should boys be allowed to take cookery classes?
Should girly be allowed to take woodwork classes?
Are the Taliban right?

I shall now do ‘biology deniers’...
Etc etc etc

@EarthSight

"Hmmmm.........you're gender critical are you???

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to see your previous posting history before I believe that.

Are you sure you know what gender they are?

Again, I'm going to need to see a long posting history here on Mumsnet before I believe you're gender critical after you said this."

Good lord. I know you're sitting behind a screen here, but that was astonishingly rude of you. I absolutely don't need your permission to think my thoughts or offer my opinion on an anonymous messageboard.

I didn't realise there were criteria, and that you were in charge of them.

*@Feelingmardy That argument won't work though. Most people can tell your sex by looking at you or your name, so pronouns don't change that.

What is does do that is emphasise the fact you're a woman and that your name is a female name. It's basically like a message saying 'JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW I'M A WOMAN, I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW HERE! OK???' , and women should have the perfect right not to feel comfortable with that because of associated discrimination.

Because of the ideology that surrounds it, it's not simply a woman saying 'I'm she/her not because of my biology', but more like 'I'm a woman because I 'feel' like a woman - and I like baking, high heels and fashion generally'.

The woman has the right not to buy into those ideas, and to also not use use other wording that is part of that ideology, such as they/them or not using pronouns at all.*

Totally agree, esp the bit about "I feel like a woman" (which is implicit in the pronoun announcement and which reifies the idea that one can actually 'feel like' a woman). If the only contact is via email though and your sex is not obvious from a name, women are disadvantaged from the off.

My pronouns are me, myself and I.

My SIL uses pronouns. When we asked why she said that it makes her approachable to her team.

We said surely you are only approachable if you are approachable, not if you tell people that you are approachable.

Obviously had nothing actually of note to say then.

Also, why do they say she/her or he/him anyway? Anyone with a vague grasp of English grammar knows that she and her go together, you don’t need to say both.

Because some of the extra special people have pronouns of she/them or they/him.
I think it's a test.

Lots of people put pronouns in emails. I had a first meeting recently where we were meant to introduce ourselves and state our pronouns. About half those there just ignored that bit. Eventually the facilitator stopped pushing it and said give your promouns 'if you would like to'.

@sloanerangerpandora I suspect you are a women hating bigot so I'll take your comment with an immense pinch of salt.

I like to block people on social media who put their pronouns in their bio.
Subservient nonsense from those trying to be woke and putting 'allyship' before the interests of their natal sex.

I've recently started volunteering for an online crisis charity, there's a platform that we use and volunteers have their own profiles etc, everyone is very lovely and obviously just wants to help people which is great so I don't really want to knock people but most of them have added their pronouns to their profile.. funnily enough, everyone's pronouns match their name and profile pics .. so you have to wonder, what the bloody hell is the point!?

Saying that on the phone was totally unnecessary unless it is something different like requesting to be addressed as "they"

@SeaToSkiI don't think they will want to understand or start to deconstruct that sentence. Too hard = didn't think = avoid. That's a win for you in that situation.

@SeaToSki I think you. I don't think they will want to understand or start to deconstruct that sentence. Too hard = didn't think = avoid. That's a win for you in that situation.

I hate how this pronouns business forces people to label themselves. If you're a young person confused about gender, the last thing you need is to have to make a definite statement about it every single time you communicate with someone. It's going to make it hard to change your mind, and will also have an impact on how others relate to you, which maybe you're not ready for. It's embarrassing if you're just not really sure, or you don't want other people to know anything about how you feel about your 'gender identity' for whatever reason. And it puts issues of gender, sex and identity uppermost in people's minds when they are totally irrelevant to the task at hand.

I think, though, that the vast majority of people who do this don't have any issues with their gender identity but are keen to make a statement about their politics/ideology. Brenda (she/her) who is obviously a woman just wants you to know she's woke. I suppose the only good thing about it is it lets you know who you can't trust.