Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Do we have it anywhere on record that Stonewall does/does not support people to express their sexuality as exclusively homosexual?

591 replies

JustcameoutGC · 30/08/2021 10:16

The expectation that lesbians accept partners with penises was one of the things that really made me start questioning gender identity politics more closely.

Exclusively homosexual lesbian spaces have disappeared as viewed to be transphobic. Just look on any lesbian dating apps and many of the users are male and be-penised. Some may be fine with this, but all of my lesbian friends are not, and they feel very disenfranchised, but equally they feel unable to speak out. Just look at what happened in Manchester.

I just can't wrap my head around how the prevoiusly stalwart and highly effective champion of gay rights has now essentially outlawed exclusive homosexuality.

Have they made any statements that make this stance clear? Have they actively said they do not support exclusively homosexual spaces?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
EarthSight · 30/08/2021 16:40

@BilindaB

'The expectation that lesbians accept partners with penises'

Who expects this? Not the vast majority of trans people. It's a bullshit myth put around by transphobes.

@BilindaB If you feel that women should have the right to only date other biological females, if you feel that people should have a right to have sexual preferences generally (which doesn't make them bad people, 'phobic' or misguided), I do hope that you will stick up for them online if you ever see a case of them being harassed for expressing their sexual orientation.
FrankButchersDickieBow · 30/08/2021 16:31

trans-exclusionary lesbians

Lesbians are not trans-exclusionary ffs. Unless you hold the stance that lesbians can have cocks. Which is homophobic.

So are you a homophobe?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/08/2021 16:28

Male-exclusionary lesbians would be a tautology, and if by trans-exclusionary Bilinda means transwoman-exclusionary, that's the same thing. I expect many lesbians are also reluctant to date transmen, who are female but don't identify as women. Women who are only sexually attracted by other women are not likely to want to get involved with females who aren't at ease with their femaleness.

RedDogsBeg · 30/08/2021 15:58

I don't want to tell trans-exclusionary lesbians what they should want.

trans-exclusionary lesbians, what a give away.

Floisme · 30/08/2021 15:50

Excuse me can we just rewind?

I'm on the dating apps for gay women and I see all sorts of people, straight men, couples, straight women who are not interested in anything at all with other women

Look this isn't my world but what the fuck are straight people doing on a dating app for gay women?

And why is this shrugged off as something you can just scroll past?
Why should anyone have to?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/08/2021 15:38

This is suggestive of the wider problem here.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/08/2021 15:36

In this case I don't want to tell trans-exclusionary lesbians what they should want.

Why are you framing women who are sexually attracted exclusively to women, ie lesbians, as "trans exclusionary"?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/08/2021 15:35

The burden of proof is on the claimant.

We've provided evidence that it is a problem on social media. Your turn.

Artichokeleaves · 30/08/2021 15:32

@BilindaB

The burden of proof is on the claimant.
A wealth of evidence has been offered to you on this thread.

You claim it is not true. You claim that there is mainstream overwhelming majority views against it.

Where are they? Because I can't find them. I can't find a single one.

BilindaB · 30/08/2021 15:29

The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Artichokeleaves · 30/08/2021 15:28

The thread is predicated on the lie that this is some mainstream trans view, it is not.

Prove it.

Link to the sites and the tweets proving that the 'mainstream trans view' whatever that may be, is that female homosexuals are welcome and supported in identifying themselves as having exclusively sex based attraction to other biological females, and to have groups of their own. Show me the newspaper articles defending the rights of the man yesterday to be homosexual in peace and support of the LGBT+ community. I can pull up dozens of truly awful pieces of evidence to the contrary that you say is a minority.

Show me the evidence that proves me wrong. Please.

FFSFFSFFS · 30/08/2021 15:25

6 days ago was the post

FFSFFSFFS · 30/08/2021 15:22

If you look on stonewalls Twitter a few days ago it was delighted to be supporting the proposed opening of Edinburghs first lesbian bar….by…..you guessed it…..a penis person. I was surprised that there was not more talk of this. I was astounded by it. Blatantly homophobic. In plain sight.

nauticant · 30/08/2021 15:17

So would you agree that if a lesbian says "I will not date or have sex with any male people, including transwomen" then that's perfectly reasonable? And that anyone attacking her for holding this position is being homophobic?

BilindaB · 30/08/2021 15:14

My beef was with the opening paragraph. I've addressed that. The rest of the post I can see both sides of. In this case I don't want to tell trans-exclusionary lesbians what they should want.

BilindaB · 30/08/2021 15:09

I answered that. Yes they can define themselves as they want. I don't have an opinion on what Stonewall's position should be.

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 30/08/2021 14:51

Bilinda, you still haven't answered my questions. Should gay women be allowed to define themselves as exclusively same sex attracted, should they be allowed to state this openly on places like dating sites, should they be allowed to create spaces, physical and on line that cater exclusively to same sex attracted women, and should Stonewall Champion their right to do so?

OP posts:
nauticant · 30/08/2021 14:49

If it's only a tiny fringe minority saying this, and the vast majority in the trans community (I'm including trans activists here) view it in horror, how come there isn't a great outcry from the mainstream trans community criticising this tiny fringe who are doing so much damage?

RoastChicory · 30/08/2021 14:47

BlindaB - Stonewall’s own website states that transwomen can be lesbians!!!!

BilindaB · 30/08/2021 14:44

@Artichokeleaves

It really doesn't matter how many times you try the gaslighting that 1) it never happens

  1. when faced with evidence, ok it happens but only a tiny tiny minority that doesn't count

  2. when faced with a lot of evidence: you're fear mongering which raises antipathy towards TW

which really is position 4 - shutupshutupshutupshutupdontlookatthat

Which proves that yes, you know damn well this is real, you are very uncomfortable with admitting it, and you really, really don't want it brought out into plain sight and acknowledged because it is openly homophobic and involves off the charts inappropriate sexual entitlement.

No. As a female homosexual I will absolutely not stop talking about or raising awareness of it so that those you can support can fix this in law and beyond the ability of other homosexuals to defend themselves against. If you had any moral courage at all or real faith in your position you would be worried about this, investigating it and approaching those raising it (having bloody funded conferences for petes sake about how to make lesbian women give in to sex with heterosexual males) to be very clear this is ok and does not happen in the name of trans people.

Instead, all your energy goes on frantically trying to shut up the women who are on the receiving end of it. You're committing time and energy here today, defending your beliefs in homophobia and the sexual rights of males over females.

My first post said the vast majority of trans women don't think this. Which means there is a tiny minority that do. There is no inconsistency. Are you just wasting my time, or can't you read?

The thread is predicated on the lie that this is some mainstream trans view, it is not. As the other poster said, a common trick pulled here, like Linehan, is find some lone weirdo saying something bad, or making threats, and make it as if they are the epitome of all trans people. It's just the same as what Islamophobes like Tommy Robinson do with Muslims. Shameful, but it's clear that some people think disingenuousness is fine if the ends justify the means.

And it stinks, it smears the whole community. In this case a community already under attack. Beyond shameful.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/08/2021 14:25

Here's a young gay man responding to some prime cotton ceiling material:

twitter.com/EuanRL/status/1428261949498871809?s=20

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/08/2021 14:23

Without misrepresenting what people like Riley Dennis has said*.

There's really no way you can "misrepresent" the words of Dennis to make it worse than what Dennis actually said.

prudencepuffin · 30/08/2021 14:21

*Again, the initial statement made it sound as this was official trans policy, It's not, which is why I feel obliged to post, and I ask you for any evidence that it's more than a very small minority of trans women with penises saying 'you must find my penis attractive, lesbians.'

Again, any evidence it's more than a tiny minority. Without misrepresenting what people like Riley Dennis has said*.

Its surely not about how many trans women are accusing lesbians of refusing penis, but the fact that lesbians are losing lesbian only spaces which is something that should concern Stonewall but of course it doesnt.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/08/2021 14:18

Stonewall said this which seems fairly unambiguous:

In addition, Stonewall will advocate for the removal of all instances of permitted discrimination of trans people from the Act, as well as for updates to the explanatory notes and statutory codes of practice accordingly. Stonewall will lobby political parties in England, Scotland and Wales to include full equality for trans people, and the reform of the Equality Act, as part of their political commitments.

From here: www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/a_vision_for_change.pdf (triggers download) p33 under "Equality Act"

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 30/08/2021 14:16

This is the article I was thinking of @BilindaB and @suggestionsplease1.

lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/02/lesbian-women-talk-about-meeting-transbians-on-women-only-dating-sites/

Do you think it was right for Lisa Masoud to be kicked off a dating site for making her homosexuality very clear on her profile?

She had been swiping right, but was still being approached by straight couples and people with penises.

Do you believe she has the right to declare her same sex sexual orientation, and do you believe that Stonewall represents her?

OP posts: