Do we have it anywhere on record that Stonewall does/does not support people to express their sexuality as exclusively homosexual?

Some lesbians are in relationships with transwomen.

A woman in a relationship with a transwoman is not a lesbian.

[quote Blibbyblobby]**@suggestionsplease1* @BilindaB*

You are both conflating "we won't force you to sleep with someone you don't fancy" with "we acknowledge and accept your sexuality".

Stonewall is an LBTQIA+ organisation. The first three characters are sexualities. So Stonewall clearly accepts that different sexualities do exist and are valid, ie that sexualities are not just prejudice.

The question then is not whether sexuality in itself is valid for Stoewall - because it clearly is - but which sexualities Stonewall accepts as valid.

LGB were (and in popular consciousness still are) labels for different types of sex-oriented sexuality. Stonewall now defines them as gender-oriented.

So the simple question is, does Stonewall, or any TRA movement, respect sex-oriented sexualities, or does it deny these exist and label those whose sexualities are sex-oriented rather than gender-oriented as simply prejudiced?

(Sexualities of course include heterosexuality, but as that was never Stonewall's remit I'm not bringing it in to this specific conversation.)[/quote]
I don't see that Stonewall have denied the right of any individual to choose their sexual partners on the basis of any reason whatsoever.

There seems to be this weird idea that a trans lesbian can expect someone to have sex with them, and as I have already said, the vast, vast majority of trans lesbians, like the vast, vast majority of people in general, understand that sex with any other person is not an entitlement.

But of course there are lesbians happily dating trans lesbians - I am in friendship groups with them, so it does happen.

As I have said before, we aren't robots filing down a line of other robots with a binary code for acceptance or rejection; we make rich, elaborate choices about the people we want in our lives and the people we want to date.

And just like the woman who has been straight all her life feeling a strange new attraction to another woman, whose genitals she would never have considered before, these situations can happily and mutually develop. Not everybody is in a neat little box all of the time.

That's a personal thing, and it doesn't mean that any other person should consider genitals they are not interested in!

Don't say things that are untrue and I won't have to correct you

Sure. And some vegetarians eat meat. But that doesn't mean the vegan society should start worrying about the needs of meat eaters.

''Lesbians are same sex attracted females, their orientation excludes males whatever said male's gender identity is.''

All of them? No. Some lesbians are in relationships with transwomen.

“Adults are free to have relationships with other consenting adults, whatever their sexual orientation or gender identity”

So why does Stonewall, or any other org, need to explicitly name and support LGB people in the first place? What’s different about LGB people (in Stonewall’s view) so they are not also included in “Adults are free to have relationships with other consenting adults, whatever their sexual orientation or gender identity”.

Why do some people get to have their sexuality respected as a firm boundary but others only get the right not to fancy someone on a case by case basis?

The answer of course is “First and foremost, we need to recognise that trans women are women, and trans men are men.” Stonewall’s commitment to prioritise gender over sex means that gay and lesbian people who know their sexuality is same sex have to be taken out of the definition of gay and lesbian. Again, the genderist appropriation of existing words to disempower existing groups and usurp their resources and support.

That's why BilindaB I deliberately selected that part of the quote:

'First and foremost we need to recognise that [TWAW] & [TMAM]'

You see what they're doing, right?

Lesbians are same sex attracted females, their orientation excludes males whatever said male's gender identity is.

Gay men are same sex attracted males, their orientation excludes females whatever said female's gender identity is.

It’s being made pretty clear who’s allowed to choose their sexual partners and who isn’t …

Oh sorry, crossposted with everyone.

But not specifically a dating app, I suppose.

Sall Grover has also been banned from advertising the app on facebook.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4336373-Crowdfunder-for-Giggle-App-suspended-by-Kickstarter

As Sall has mentioned, there is a trans-only app, which no-one has a problem with. So why can't we raise funds for Giggle?

The full quote

''Of course. If they fancy each other. First and foremost, we need to recognise that trans women are women, and trans men are men. After that it becomes a matter of who you are attracted to. Adults are free to have relationships with other consenting adults, whatever their sexual orientation or gender identity.''

Do they really need to spell out 'for example if you're not attracted to transwomen, you don't have to fancy them'? It's implicit.

If someone wanted to set up a trans-exclusionary dating app, who would stop them?

But would lesbians want a tran-exclusionary dating app, which would exclude transmen and female-born non-binary people? Surely lesbians just want a simple same-sex dating app?

Sorry, have I missed the evidence of the ‘majority’ of trans people standing up to defend lesbians?

Have I missed the evidence that Stonewall have come out (Lesbian week would be a good time to have done it) and said, please all those harassing and abusing lesbians, including young lesbians, for stating their sexual boundaries, just stop as it is completely unacceptable?

Have I missed the evidence presented that the majority do not support it, or even support it by remaining silent?

And by whose authority are we taking these posters telling us it is a minority view? Is this because they have a couple of friends who tell them this? What authority do they have that we should believe them?

The issue is that there is no pushback.

You can keep saying it's just a bonkers minority, but if it is, why are only people like us challenging it? What does it do to same-sex attracted young women to see these views voiced and unchallenged by organisations like Stonewall UK? Well, lots of women here know, because they were that woman, or they have a lesbian daughter.

The thread is predicated on the lie that this is some mainstream trans view, it is not.

Oh give it a rest. It is a common position on social media. And that is what is absolutely shameful, and your minimising and dismissal of it, not pointing it out.

Look this isn't my world but what the fuck are straight people doing on a dating app for gay women?

And why is this shrugged off as something you can just scroll past?
Why should anyone have to?

The worst of it is that there is no option to filter out those straight people and people born male who demand to be accepted as lesbian females. It's a total waste of time, saps energy and makes using the apps a miserable experience.

Women who state in their profiles that they are only interested in women born women looking for an exclusively female relationship get reported and banned for "hate".

The only dating app that doesn't do this is Giggle, which started out being open to anyone who identified as a woman or girl, but had to change the policy when males identifying as females flooded the app with horrific abuse. Watching the woman who created the app gaining her education at the hands of abusive transwomen was fascinating.

Now the app requires new members to prove their sex by uploading photos in real time. I'm a fat old woman with PCOS and had to upload 7 photos before the app accepted me. Sallie Grover, who created the app says some men are so determined to be validated by the app that they upload vast numbers of photos, last I heard the maximum attempts by a single bloke was 64 photos taken one after the other.

The fury over women having anything to themselves has to be seen to be believed. Though of course any woman who has ever said NO to a man is likely to have experienced it to some degree or other.

“Exclusive same sex attraction is a valid and real sexuality, there is absolutely nothing objectionable about being exclusively same sex attracted, and those who are should be able to live their sexuality free from any form of hate, discrimination, coercion or harassment, and are fully supported by our organisation as part of the LGBT community".

Stonewall's response:

"We cannot help you with that."

From
Female Only Provision:
A Women and Girls in Scotland Report
Page 55f.
wgscotland.org.uk/reports/

They can define themselves as they like. If someone wanted to set up a trans-exclusionary dating app, who would stop them?

Giggle's founder is trying to set up a female-only dating section as part of the Giggle app. There is a thread right now about her crowdfunding page for the app being banned from Kickstarter.

I happen to have a Kickstarter account, so I can tell you I've seen a lot of Kickstarters for material that denigrates women. But they were permitted.