Gay man 'bullied' off Manchester Pride for wearing LGB Alliance hat and t-shirt

@andrelax

Do you have any words of concern for Alexander? He's somebody's son, and he was subjected to robbery and assault.

This is a parenting site. Many of us have children, and some of those children are L and G, and we are worried for their futures, too. Will they be subjected to aggression if they are openly same-sex attracted?

This is an account from elsewhere. I don't want that happening to a daughter of mine or anyone else's daughter, and I will never back down.

extract

A few years ago, I used to play a MMORPG in which I joined a LGBT guild because I wanted a place where I could be myself without risking being harassed or bullied if people found out that I am a lesbian. I had a great time in this guild and made a lot of friends.

About 3 months after I joined, a transwoman in the guild sent me a private message in-game asking if I would be interested in dating her. I politely declined. She asked if it was because she was trans and I said yes. I tried to explain as nicely and politely as possible that I just can’t deal with penises, male bodies, and male voices. I just can’t find them attractive, especially penises because just seeing them brings up memories of when I was raped as a child. She demanded that I date her anyway and threatened to tell everyone in the guild that I was transphobic if I didn’t. She also demanded that I send her nude pictures of myself. I refused. I took screenshots of the chat log just in-case, logged off, and went to bed feeling awful.

While I was asleep, the transwoman did exactly what she said she would do. She told the guild’s leader that she asked me for make-up advice and that I responded by saying she could never look like a real woman and that I had called her a bunch of slurs. When I turned my PC on the next day, I was greeted by a message from the guild leader in the guild’s group chat on Skype (this was before Discord existed) that I was going to be removed from the guild because of my alleged transphobia. I denied it and a few of the other members came to my defense, saying it didn’t seem like something I would do, as I was always very friendly to everyone. I sent the screenshots of the chat log thinking it would clear my name, since she straight up said she was going to lie about me. Instead of focusing on that, the discussion shifted to me refusing to date her. I was told, by people that had been my friends for months, that my “genital preference” was transphobic and that I should just get over my trauma or just kill myself. I was told that even if I am not attracted to her, I have to date her to affirm her identity as a trans lesbian. I was given an ultimatum, date her or be removed from the guild. I refused and was kicked out.

From that point on, I was bullied by my former guild-mates whenever we happened to come across each other in-game. When I joined a new guild, the transwoman and the leader of my old guild found out. They messaged the leader of my new guild and told him that I was a racist and was using hacks. This was shortly after there was an outbreak of hackers using an exploit in the game to delete parts of another player’s character data causing their characters to become corrupted and unable to be logged into (great Korean free-to-play MMO security pretend-thumbs-up-emoji) and there was quite a bit of paranoia amongst the community because of it. I was kicked from that guild too. The in-game bullying continued for a bit and I eventually quit a few weeks later.

I was bullied in school for being a lesbian when I made the stupid mistake of reading a lesbian romance manga in class. The internet was my escape from that, where I could be myself without being afraid. I’ve tried to join other LGBT and lesbian focused communities on sites like reddit but ever since that incident with that MMO guild and similar things I’ve seen happen to girls on places like /r/actuallesbians, I have been afraid to admit that I don’t find transwomen attractive. I’m afraid to tell my LGBT-supporting friends, no matter how close we are or how long we’ve been friends. I’ve tried using dating sites and it seems like most of the lesbians on there are predatory transwomen that demand sex. I’ve been feeling pretty lonely and depressed, often thinking about suicide.

Continues: oursuperstories.com/i-was-given-an-ultimatum-date-her-or-be-removed-from-the-guild/

but at least you have my alternative perspective

We'll file it with all the other minimising of the bullying and assault of this man for standing up for LGB people.

Stonewall says that it supports gay, lesbian and bisexual people too.

Why don't you ask Stonewall if it supports same sex attraction? Then ask if it's transphobic to only be attracted to a person of the same sex, not the same gender? See what answers you get...

doesn't mean that people are not allowed to have their own interpretations

They are allowed to have their own interpretations. We all are. What they aren't allowed to do is threaten and assault people on the basis of supporting a gay rights organisation. Just like we can't go around threatening and insulting people because we disagree with their wearing of Mermaids or Gendered Intelligence t shirts due to what we think it represents.

Anyway, I've spent too much of an (admittedly overcast) Bank Holiday discussing this with you all. It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective. Thanks for (largely) discussing in good faith – have a good one.

I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic.

Quite a few people have lost jobs and work for doing far, far less, on the basis that they are transphobic.

Let's frame this another way. Do you think that it is a legitimate point of view for a gay person to disagree with LGBA on the grounds that their methods and focuses are too focused on the trans/sex/gender debate?

You can disagree with whatever you want. You can even be entirely ignorant of the organisations goals / purpose / mission statement. Which it seems that you are. But you don't get to harass people in the street because they have different views to you. Well you can. But there are potential legal consequences to that behaviour. And I hope there is for the people who thought that was ok to do that.

Well, sort of. You are right that if someone genuinely thinks that LGBA exists only to support the rights of gay people and so on

Which this man does

is perfectly legitimate to consider them non-transphobic and to support them and do whatever.

Which this man did

But the flipside of that is that it is perfectly legitimate for other people to think that LGBA's focus and methods are unnecessarily down on trans people. And if that is someone's view, then shouting at a person wearing an LGBA hat in the street is likely to be because of that disagreement over methods and aims, rather than because they hate that person for being gay.

And I assume you think it’s also perfectly legitimate that many people think the LGBA is not unnecessarily down on trans people, and therefore those that are calling wearing clothing with the charities brand a transphobic aggression, or that the charity itself is transphobic, are wrong? Because it’s all down to interpretation?

This is actually a great example, and the most appropriate counter-example I've seen so far flipping this onto the "TRA" side. I mean this in all seriousness: I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic. Because Mermaids, like LGBA, is an organisation which has a specific focus and set of political/etc aims.

Okay so you might think this but I guarantee if this happened and you posted such an opinion on Twitter or wrote an Op-Ed in the press saying so you would immediately be excommunicated and face a ton of harassment. You'd probably even get your own Owen Jones tweet thread!

And Stonewall are lobbyists not activists - they take advantage of activists - but their modus operandi is to fly under the radar to push through legislation that they know would be unpopular if held up to public scrutiny.

After the Forstarter case I have been being much more open about talking about what I believe about what is going on right now in society. I have been talking to people at work mainly, very average none political people.
They were all shocked, but, and this but is important. Almost all of them linked the issue with gay rights, even though I was quite direct that I was talking about trans issues.
My point is that in the minds of very everyday people, gay and trans are linked, and I believe this is going to be a disaster for gay men when all is said and done.

He asserted that he was a supporter of the LGBA, which says only that he supports the views and aims of a particular organisation.

Which is clear that it supports gay, lesbian and bisexual people. That an organisation supporting this group of people and by default same-sex attraction has become the 'enemy' is symptomatic of the batshit situation we're in. One that denies biological reality and exists because of countless academics postulating, in order to earn a crust and feel self important, and organisations like Stonewall trying to keep the funding flowing in.

Stonewall has no more fundamental influence than any other person or organisation in law, they just choose an activist approach.

They have huge amounts of influence on policy and have encouraged organisations to ‘go beyond the law’ even when that means breaking the law. Their advice is taken (e.g. by the BBC) on legal matters even when it is clearly erroneous and based on a doctrine (e.g. sex assigned at birth) that is fundamentally flawed.

As a lawyer, if a gay person suffered discrimination at work, what comparator would you use if gay is now ‘queer’ and most of the company identify as queer despite being in what would be called ‘heterosexual’ relationships in the olden days?.

Maybe you are assuming this wouldn’t be a problem because in this alternative universe where everyone is queer we are all equal. I can however assure you that the inconvenient egg producing type people would still need specific rights and services and require language and legislation to protect those rights and services.

And the "fear" of the LGBA isn't really a fear, it's just disagreement. And there are no efforts to "have it shut down", just efforts for it to be deregistered as a charity (because, as you will know, you can be an organisation without being a charity).

Just disagreement, you really love to minimise and dismiss don't you?

Why are there efforts to have it deregistered as a Charity? If it has no influence and little support what's the problem?

I'd definitely say it is fear that is driving the rabid attacks on it otherwise why not just ignore it?

But if the person who snatched the hat knew about the LGBA and disagreed with them based on their focus on gender issues and thought that the LGBA was too dismissive of trans issues, the snatching would be on the grounds of political disagreement, not because the snatcher hated gay people.

You think it's acceptable to do this because the person is ignorant of the facts and thinks that the LGB has to include trans people? Even though trans people have lots of organisations that support just trans people. But LGB can't have directed support for themselves? Just listen to yourself.

I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic.

I feel a lot of TRAs would disagree. Just a hunch.

But the flipside of that is that it is perfectly legitimate for other people to think that LGBA's focus and methods are unnecessarily down on trans people. And if that is someone's view, then shouting at a person wearing an LGBA hat in the street is likely to be because of that disagreement over methods and aims, rather than because they hate that person for being gay.

He asserted that he was a supporter of the LGBA, which says only that he supports the views and aims of a particular organisation.

AND???